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Old July 26, 2010, 10:39   #91
andrewdoull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizwan View Post
I think we need to first understand why divers dive?
I dive to avoid Comic Sans and packs of Papyrus.

Andrew
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Old July 26, 2010, 10:54   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Calling out the intent of the original Angband developers is a dicey proposition, because we don't have any of them here to talk to
Really? I think if you look hard enough, you could...
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Old July 26, 2010, 12:57   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
You did hit there a one major change game had very recently. Monster drop used to be average of monster level and dungeon level, making low level monsters drop much weaker things even in deep down. Now that game uses which is bigger mlvl or dlvl something like novice rangers at dlvl 98 are just as good as Ancient dragons. Big group of them are better than Ancient dragon, and way less dangerous.
That is a perfect example of a change that is upsetting game balance, & is making the game a little bland.

Another example, to me, is the change that paralysis is non-cumulative. It should be the way it was, paralysis pretty much meant instadeath, unless you got very lucky.

I don't have any problems with powerdiving. I enjoy reading the stories of fantastic luck. But I am going to try to sum up what us who don't like some of these changes are trying to say:

The problem is not powerdiving, the problem is that the game has removed every reason NOT to do it. It used to be a risk that offered a reward. But the risk of going deeper is being removed, and the rewards of going deeper are being increased. There are now so little tradeoffs to the decision of what depth the player should be at, it is making the game somewhat boring.

All IMHO, of course. And the fact that I am taking on the ~300 hour project of updating NPP from the 3.0.6 codebase to the 3.1.2v2 codebase shows how much I like many of the improvements that Angband has had in the last couple years. So no disrespect intended to the people making to these changes.
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Old July 26, 2010, 13:16   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoull View Post
I dive to avoid Comic Sans and packs of Papyrus.

Andrew
Sorry did you mean you don't like COMIC SANS
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Old July 26, 2010, 13:30   #95
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Well I would not mind a reversal back to half(mlvl + dlvl)... it would change it slightly in favor of going as deep as you can handle, while still giving some bonus for taking the risk for going all the way. Still the level boringness to solve though. Autoscummer back too please.
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Old July 26, 2010, 15:49   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nppangband View Post
Another example, to me, is the change that paralysis is non-cumulative. It should be the way it was, paralysis pretty much meant instadeath, unless you got very lucky.
Old paralysis was an instadeath unless the paralysis came from a spell and there was only one monster in the area (or unless the monster had terrible accuracy, i.e. was a bog-standard Floating Eye). New paralysis is still an instadeath, just not quite as imminently; by the time you get to 2000' or so, getting paralyzed means giving monsters 10+ turns of unanswered melee on you, when you can typically only survive 3 or 4 (if you get surrounded).

In other words, paralysis is still really nasty, and everyone is going to want to get Free Action as soon as possible. But now, newbies have the chance to find out why they need Free Action without having to lose a character first.
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Old July 26, 2010, 16:06   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
Well I would not mind a reversal back to half(mlvl + dlvl)... it would change it slightly in favor of going as deep as you can handle, while still giving some bonus for taking the risk for going all the way. Still the level boringness to solve though. Autoscummer back too please.
I actually think something like:

max(mlvl, avg(mlvl, dlvl))

would work pretty well. The nicest thing about the current arrangement is that you don't get penalized for fighting an OOD monster. Under the old scheme you got LESS stuff for trying to take on an OOD monster than just waiting and fighting it at level.

This way, OOD monsters are worth fighting, harder monsters will always drop better stuff than easy monsters, and clearing orc pits isn't as lucrative as clearing demon pits at level 99.
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Old July 26, 2010, 16:42   #98
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I like it. I'd had the same thought - that simply reverting to avg(mlvl, dlvl) 'devalued' OOD monsters - but hadn't followed that thought through far enough to get to the formula you suggest.
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Old July 26, 2010, 17:03   #99
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I like the proposed change to drops. I would revert the change to paralysis but it isn't that big of a deal.

Do people think the random monster idea would make the game more fun? I have given it a lot of thought the past few days. Divers could continue to -TO them on the assumption they are dangerous, people who like fighting could engage them.
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Old July 26, 2010, 19:01   #100
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I am not so sure about the idea of removing levels 2000'-4000'.
One of the dangers of diving is just finding the stairs and going down them. (Especially in disconnected mode.)
If you remove 40 staircases in the danger zone, you may make diving less interesting (and less dangerous.)
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