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Old January 16, 2011, 14:52   #11
ekolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
That goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm planning. Maybe you want to write Angband 5?
Haha, no thanks... if I were the Angband maintainer, either nothing meaningful would get done or all the regulars would riot at the massive changes! Most likely the former, seeing what happened when I tried to make a Star Trek themed mod for Space Empires V...
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Old January 16, 2011, 18:31   #12
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I'm all for separating the display from the game logic. It just makes sense.
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Old January 16, 2011, 19:11   #13
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I think your plans sound good, so I'm all for them. I think I'm one of the few players who uses tiles, so something which could improve that would be great for me. it also seems to make sense.
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Old January 16, 2011, 22:59   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
If you want awesome UI check the Sangband UI. ASCII, but way better than terminals.
I would suggest that Tim Baker's OmnibandTk is another excellent example of how *band UI can work.
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Old January 17, 2011, 04:18   #15
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I don't personally care for tiles, or graphics beyond the basic fontset, but it does seem to make sense to see the graphics divorced from the mechanics to the greatest extent possible. It would certainly be cool to someday see an artfully-rendered 3d graphic mod running over the basic vanilla game.

I would love to see enhanced menu navigation, more intuitive access to options/squelch/etc - much in the vein that the game is already moving, so a bit of a moot point.

I use standard keyboard for everything and got quite proficient at it quite quickly. I personally feel a mouse interface might be slower to use in terms of real-time. But having support for enhanced mouse function makes sense in light of expanded GUI options.

My only gripe at this point is that using terminal windows to display all the info I want to know is a bit clunky at current. While it's fun to feel like I'm looking at a fighter jet cockpit, a cleaner organization would be nice. I will leave that statement vague because I have no useful idea ATM what precisely should be different, just that I think it could be better.
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Old January 17, 2011, 06:16   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
For more information on the plans, there is a more technical version (with another diagram!) on Trac. Sounds like you'd approach it similarly to how I am.
Indeed. I (of course) think the plan sounds very reasonable .

Just a little bonus question: Are you planning to go threaded or are you going for a full inversion of control (aka event-based) for the game logic? IIRC, a lot of the current logic expects to be able to block waiting for a keystroke...
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Old January 17, 2011, 08:39   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I would suggest that Tim Baker's OmnibandTk is another excellent example of how *band UI can work.
Seconded! The minimap in OmnibandTK, for example, is a feature I would love to have in angband.
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Old January 17, 2011, 11:47   #18
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Here's a squeaky-wheel request for larger maximum font sizes shipped with the game. The 16x24 limit is one of the main things that makes me shy away from Angband and most variants. 32x32 may sound big, but screens aren't as small as they used to be...

(I don't like tiles, in part because they can be hard to read efficiently even at 32x32.)
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Old January 17, 2011, 11:48   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymousHero View Post
Indeed. I (of course) think the plan sounds very reasonable .

Just a little bonus question: Are you planning to go threaded or are you going for a full inversion of control (aka event-based) for the game logic? IIRC, a lot of the current logic expects to be able to block waiting for a keystroke...
No plans to go threaded, no. We're still going to be blocking on input.
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Old January 17, 2011, 12:33   #20
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Quote:
Angband 4 will be as incompatible with existing variant code as Ben Harrison's Angband was to the variants that came before it. There will be pretty much no easy way to port code across from V4 to variants because of how deep the display assumptions in the code are. This makes me sad, but sometimes good things are painful to go through.

Why do I want these things? Well, if we want convincing handheld ports (and I do), at some point the game logic has to be decoupled from its display. The approach outlined above could result in extremely playable Android or iPhone ports, without worrying about virtual keyboards, and making use of native UI on those devices (without adding a load of hacks into the game proper).
As PWMAngband variant maintainer, which is real time and multiplayer, it's a pain in the b**t for me to port interesting changes from Vanilla when the changes involve a mix of user input and game logic. For example, it's hard to port code which asks the user to enter a key (client side) and, at the same time, modifies the internal structures of the game (players, monsters, objects... server side). Having display code and game code separated would be heaven! And if the code is incompatible with current variant code, then I'm even willing to recode my variant...
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