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Old June 1, 2009, 08:34   #31
Mondkalb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delver View Post
For equipment, is this taking into account the costs of identifying everything? For example, is it worth carrying around a weapon for one dungeon level until I've pseudo-identified it, then deciding what to do with it? If I have a weapon that's pseudo-identified as {magical} or {excellent}, how much would shop keepers charge for those compared to fully identified items?


So, I need to dive faster?



Well, I did kill him, though it was costlier than I was expecting.

Can someone please explain to me how exactly I'm supposed to tell just how tough a monster is when I see it? Do I have to basically sacrifice a hundred characters until I know exactly what character level and equipment I need for every monster and unique?
IDing {excellent} items is always worth a scroll - the item will either be useful to you or can be sold for a multiple of the price of an ID scroll.

Generally, uniques are almost always dangerous, unless you are well equipped.
Other monsters are difficult to estimate.
Monsters in hordes can be dangerous because the can swarm you and get multiple attacks.
Monsters that move very quickly may get multiple attacks.
Monsters that can cast spells or breathe are dangerous - like the dark elven mage: he can poison and blind and confuse you, which is a dangerous combination. If other monsters get summoned, they can do more harm to you.

If something attacks you and takes considerable amount of your HPs, it is probably very dangerous.


You are in depth for a certain useful, somewhat common artifact. You should watch out for metal caps, one of them might be {special}; also an {excellent} or a {special} cloak may show up.

For the uniques: Wormtongue is known for often dropping an {excellent} or {special} item. You might be able to kill him. He can poison you and create traps, so watch out. He also may steal your money like Smeagol. Be sure to have enough potions.
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Old June 2, 2009, 23:06   #32
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Back to dungeon level 12. Encounter some nether worm masses which drained some of my life, so I ran away. I detect Wormtongue, then later detect Golfimbul the Hill Orc Chief. I believe Golfimbul killed one of my earlier characters (I know it was one of the orc chieftains) so I need to be cautious.

Turning down a hallway, I notice Wormtongue in front of me. Oh snap.
Code:

                                                                                
Dunadan                                                                         
Protector                                                                       
Paladin                                                                         
Level     15                                               ###                  
Nxt       26                                        ########.#                  
AU       133                                        #........#                  
|}=="~(()]]]                                 ########'######.#                  
STR:   18/40                                 #........#    #.#                  
INT:      11                                 #.######+#    #.#                  
WIS:   18/10                        +        #.#           #.#                  
DEX:      17                                 #.#           #.##########         
CON:      17                                 #@#           #..........##        
CHR:      18                        '        #.#           ##########..#        
                                             #.#                    ##.#        
Cur AC    40                        '        #p#                     #.#        
HP  183/ 183                                 ' +                     #.#        
SP   25/  25                                  +                      #.#        
                                                                    ##+######## 
[**********]                                '                       .'......... 
                                                                    ########### 
                                                                                
                                                                                
600' (L12)   DTrap [ESC][Ret][Spc][Rpt][Std]                                    
I Phase Door out of there into the middle of a pack of white wolves. I Chant and head for a hallway, but not before Wormtongue shows up again.
Code:

                                                                                
Dunadan                                                      #........#         
Protector                                             ########'######.#         
Paladin                                               #........#    #.#         
Level     15                                          #.######+#    #.#         
Nxt       26                                 +        #.#           #.#         
AU       133                                          #.#           #.######### 
|}=="~(()]]]                                          #.#           #.......... 
STR:   18/40                                 '        #.#           ##########. 
INT:      11                                 .        #.#                    ## 
WIS:   18/10                          #######C######  #'#                     # 
DEX:      17                          #.......C....p  ' +                     # 
CON:      17                          #.......@CC..#   +                      # 
CHR:      18                          #......C.....#                         ## 
                                      #............. '                       .' 
Cur AC    45                          #............#                         ## 
HP  168/ 183                          #............#                            
SP   15/  25                          #....C.......#                            
                                      ####.#########                            
[**********]                                                                    
                                                                                
                                           ########                           # 
                                           #......#                           # 
600' (L12)   Blssd DTrap [ESC][Ret][Spc][Rpt][Std]                              
This time I pray for Portal. I'm in a dark room, but nothing a Call Light couldn't fix. I rest, then roll my eyes as a white wolf appears at the doorway. I start fighting it, but then more white wolves pour out. While fighting the wolves, I gain my character level 16 back.

I continue to hunt the wolves and see Wormtongue again.
Code:

                                                                                
Dunadan                                   #............#                        
Defender                                  #............#                        
Paladin                                   ####.#########                        
LEVEL     16                                                                    
NXT      963                                                                    
AU       182                                   ########                         
|}=="~(()]]]                                   #......#                         
STR:   18/40                                 #.#......#                         
INT:      11                                 #.#......#                         
WIS:   18/10                                 #p#......#                         
DEX:      17                                 #C#......#                         
CON:      17                         #########@#......#                         
CHR:      18                        ##.........##.#######           ########### 
                                    #..##########.......##          #.......... 
Cur AC    40                        #.##        #######..############.######### 
HP  159/ 186    #####################.#               ##...........##.#         
SP   26/  26    #.....................#                ###########.##.#         
                #.................#####                          #....#         
[*******---]    #.................#                              ######         
                #.................#                                             
                #.................#                                             
                #.................#                                             
600' (L12)   Study (1) DTrap [ESC][Ret][Spc][Rpt][Std]                          
I kill that one wolf then Portal out of there, and do some more exploring.

I learn that nether worm masses can break down doors. Breeding monsters and experience drain are bad enough; why does Angband have to be so cruel? Also, a moaning spirit drained my dexterity while I was digging some rubble (should have remembered the wands of Stone to Mud).

I return near to where Golfimbul and his gang are, just to check out the area. I soon see Golfimbul followed by a posse of orc shamans. I back away quickly. I back into a hallway, Chant, and face Golfimbul head-on. That didn't go so well, so I read a Word of Recall and Portaled out of there.

I'm in town. I need something to restore my dexterity. The Alchemy Shop only has one stinking potion of restore strength.

Meh. I buy more scrolls of Identify and Phase Door, as well as some extra food. The Black Market had a special on scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit, which I use to upgrade my long bow. With a sigh, I Word of Recall back to dungeon level 12, a dungeon level I'll probably be exploring for a long time.

Code:
 Sex    Male         Age             56   STR:     16  +1  +3  +2  18/40
 Race   Dunadan      Height          79   INT:     12  +2  -3  +0     11
 Class  Paladin      Weight         187   WIS:     16  +2  +1  +0  18/10
 Title  Defender     Social       Known   Dex:     13  +2  +0  +2     17     15
 HP     186/186      Maximize         Y   CON:     10  +3  +2  +2     17
 SP     26/26                             CHR:     14  +2  +2  +0     18

 Level               16   Armor    [22,+18]     Saving Throw         50%
 Cur Exp           4473   Fight     (+0,+3)     Stealth             Fair
 Max Exp           4473   Melee     (+6,+7)     Fighting          Superb
 Adv Exp           4945   Shoot     (+4,+0)     Shooting       Excellent
 MaxDepth    600' (L12)   Blows      1/turn     Disarming            32%
 Turns           626993   Shots      1/turn     Magic Device   Excellent
 Gold                36   Infra        0 ft     Perception       1 in 25
 Burden       138.7 lbs   Speed      Normal     Searching            25%

 Acid:....+........ Confu:.............
 Elec:......+...... Sound:.............
 Fire:............. Shard:.............
 Cold:..+.......... Nexus:.............
 Pois:............. Nethr:.............
 Fear:............. Chaos:.............
 Lite:............. Disen:.............
 Dark:............. S.Dig:.............
Blind:............. Feath:...........+.

PLite:.....+....... Aggrv:.............
Regen:............. Stea.:.............
Telep:............. Sear.:...+.........
Invis:+............ Infra:.............
FrAct:+............ Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:.............
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............

  [Character Equipment]

a) a Cutlass of Westernesse (1d8) (+6,+4) (+2) {@w1}
     +2 strength, dexterity, constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     With this weapon, you would currently get 1 blow per round,
     averaging a damage of 20.5 against orcs, 20.5 against trolls, 20.5
     against giants, and 11.5 against normal creatures.
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+4,+0)
c) a Ring of Resist Cold
     Provides resistance to cold.
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
d) a Ring of Searching (+2)
     +2 searching.
e) an Amulet of Resist Acid
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
f) a Lantern of Brightness (10894 turns)
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 3 light.
g) Studded Leather Armour of Resist Lightning (-1) [6,+6]
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
h) a Cloak [1,+4]
i) a Leather Shield [6,+0]
j) a Metal Cap [3,+4]
k) a Set of Gauntlets [3,+0]
l) a Pair of Iron Shod Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3]
     Feather Falling.

  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook] {@m1@G1@b1!d!v!k}
b) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom] {@m2@G2@b2!d!v!k}
c) a Holy Book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings] {@m3@G3@b3!d!v!k}
d) 9 Rations of Food
e) 4 Mushrooms of Fast Recovery
f) 7 Flasks of oil
g) 6 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
h) 2 Potions of Heroism
i) 40 Scrolls of Phase Door
j) 26 Scrolls of Identify
k) 8 Scrolls of Word of Recall
l) a Rod of Treasure Location {@z1}
m) 3 Wands of Stinking Cloud (2 charges)
n) 2 Wands of Stone to Mud (11 charges)
o) a Shovel (1d2) (+6,+3) (+1) {@w1}
     +1 tunneling.
     With this weapon, you would currently get 2 blows per round.  Each
     blow will do an average damage of 7.5 against normal creatures.
p) 17 Arrows of Frost (1d4) (+6,+2) {@f2}
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
     Fired from your current missile launcher, this arrow will hit targets
     up to 120 feet away, inflicting an average damage of 40.5 against
     frost-vulnerable creatures, and 13.5 against normal creatures.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
q) 14 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0) {@f1}
     Fired from your current missile launcher, this arrow will hit targets
     up to 120 feet away, inflicting an average damage of 7.5 against
     normal creatures.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.

  [Home Inventory]

a) a Ring of Feather Falling
     Feather Falling.
     
b) an Amulet of Slow Digestion
     Slows your metabolism.
P.S. How useful does the Weapon Smith and Armoury stay for the entire game? The Alchemy Shop, Magic Shop, and General Store has consumables, and the Black Market has the occasional great item. But how often do people buy things (buy, not sell) from the Weapon Smiths and Armoury, considering that it seems most of the good equipment is found in the dungeon? I'm asking from both a player's perspective and a game designer's perspective.

Last edited by Delver; June 2, 2009 at 23:11.
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Old June 3, 2009, 04:17   #33
Zikke
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Sometimes the weapon shop will have a Holy Avenger or a missile weapon of extra attacks or Power or something.

The Alchemist is super useful for !RestoreStat, ?ID, ?PhaseDoor, ?Teleport, and later ?EnchantWeapon and ?EnchantArmor
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Old June 3, 2009, 05:00   #34
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You will do more damage with that shovel (7.5x2) than with your current primary weapon (11.5) against most monsters. (What I am really saying is: carry a swap--like an enchanted Main Gauche--for when you want to do real damage.)
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Old June 3, 2009, 08:55   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
You will do more damage with that shovel (7.5x2) than with your current primary weapon (11.5) against most monsters. (What I am really saying is: carry a swap--like an enchanted Main Gauche--for when you want to do real damage.)
But be shure to detect monsters. At ~750 feet the Homunculus may show up. He can paralyze you, so don't take your Westernesse weapon of if some of them is near.
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Old June 4, 2009, 02:33   #36
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Exclamation Dantares is dead

I regret to announce that Dantares has died after being ambushed by a tiger. I, er, I guess I mean Dantares tried to fight the tiger off (I think I fought one before) but it was too strong. Phase Door didn't work; it didn't have enough range. I tried praying for Portal, even as a last ditch effort when I didn't have enough mana left, but the prayer failed three times!

R.I.P. Dantares
Code:
 Sex    Male         Age             56   STR:     16  +1  +3  +2  18/40
 Race   Dunadan      Height          79   INT:     12  +2  -3  +0     11
 Class  Paladin      Weight         187   WIS:     16  +2  +1  +0  18/10
 Title  Defender     Social       Known   Dex:     13  +2  +0  +2     17     15
 HP     -1/178       Maximize         Y   CON:      8  +3  +2  +2     15
 SP     0/26                              CHR:     14  +2  +2  +0     18

 Level               16   Armor    [22,+18]     Saving Throw         50%
 Cur Exp           4563   Fight     (+0,+3)     Stealth             Fair
 Max Exp           4563   Melee     (+6,+7)     Fighting          Superb
 Adv Exp           4945   Shoot     (+4,+0)     Shooting       Excellent
 MaxDepth    600' (L12)   Blows      1/turn     Disarming            32%
 Turns           642384   Shots      1/turn     Magic Device   Excellent
 Gold               260   Infra        0 ft     Perception       1 in 25
 Burden       137.4 lbs   Speed      Normal     Searching            25%

 You are one of several children of a Yeoman.  You are a credit to the
 family.  You have brown eyes, straight black hair, and an average
 complexion.

 Acid:....+........ Confu:.............
 Elec:......+...... Sound:.............
 Fire:............. Shard:.............
 Cold:..+.......... Nexus:.............
 Pois:............. Nethr:.............
 Fear:............. Chaos:.............
 Lite:............. Disen:.............
 Dark:............. S.Dig:.............
Blind:............. Feath:...........+.

PLite:.....+....... Aggrv:.............
Regen:............. Stea.:.............
Telep:............. Sear.:...+.........
Invis:+............ Infra:.............
FrAct:+............ Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:.............
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.............

  [Last Messages]

> You do not have enough mana to recite this prayer.
> You failed to concentrate hard enough!
> You faint from the effort!
> You are paralysed!
> You have damaged your health!
> The Tiger claws you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Tiger misses you.
> The Tiger bites you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Tiger claws you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The Tiger misses you.
> The Tiger bites you.
> You die.

Killed by a Tiger.

  [Character Equipment]

a) a Cutlass of Westernesse (1d8) (+6,+4) (+2) {@w1}
     +2 strength, dexterity, constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     With this weapon, you would currently get 1 blow per round,
     averaging a damage of 20.5 against orcs, 20.5 against trolls, 20.5
     against giants, and 11.5 against normal creatures.
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+4,+0)
c) a Ring of Resist Cold
     Provides resistance to cold.
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
d) a Ring of Searching (+2)
     +2 searching.
e) an Amulet of Resist Acid
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
f) a Lantern of Brightness (9355 turns)
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 3 light.
g) Studded Leather Armour of Resist Lightning (-1) [6,+6]
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
h) a Cloak [1,+4]
i) a Leather Shield [6,+0]
j) a Metal Cap [3,+4]
k) a Set of Gauntlets [3,+0]
l) a Pair of Iron Shod Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3]
     Feather Falling.

  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook] {@m1@G1@b1!d!v!k}
b) 2 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom] {@m2@G2@b2!d!v!k}
c) a Holy Book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings] {@m3@G3@b3!d!v!k}
d) 8 Rations of Food
e) 3 Mushrooms of Fast Recovery
f) 7 Flasks of oil
g) 4 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
h) 6 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
i) 2 Potions of Heroism
j) 36 Scrolls of Phase Door
k) 26 Scrolls of Identify
l) 8 Scrolls of Word of Recall
m) a Rod of Treasure Location {@z1}
n) 3 Wands of Stinking Cloud (2 charges)
o) 2 Wands of Stone to Mud (11 charges)
p) a Shovel (1d2) (+6,+3) (+1) {@w1}
     +1 tunneling.
     With this weapon, you would currently get 2 blows per round.  Each
     blow will do an average damage of 7.5 against normal creatures.
q) 17 Arrows of Frost (1d4) (+6,+2) {@f2}
     Cannot be harmed by cold.
     Fired from your current missile launcher, this arrow will hit targets
     up to 120 feet away, inflicting an average damage of 40.5 against
     frost-vulnerable creatures, and 13.5 against normal creatures.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
r) 14 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0) {@f1}
     Fired from your current missile launcher, this arrow will hit targets
     up to 120 feet away, inflicting an average damage of 7.5 against
     normal creatures.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.

  [Home Inventory]

a) a Ring of Feather Falling
     Feather Falling.

b) an Amulet of Slow Digestion
     Slows your metabolism.

  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta)       : no  (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location       : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations       : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : yes (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses   : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation             : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death           : no  (score_live)

Let me attempt to quantify what I should have learned from this playthrough:
  • Charisma is a dump stat
  • 18 Constitution during character generation is a good idea
  • Ease back on food and torches in favour of scrolls of Phase Door
  • When you start, dive to dungeon level 10 as soon as possible
  • Don't try to kill everything you see
  • Single-resist armour isn't worth that much

P.S. No-one has got the reference to my character's name yet?
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Old June 4, 2009, 02:43   #37
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Correct, you don't need to kill everything you see.

What you need to take away from this is that Phase Door is not a reliable escape. Sure, if works for the first few levels, but once fast movers, ranged attacks and large packs become common you should carry teleport, or teleport other, or teleport level (scrolls, and CCW so you can read them).
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Old June 4, 2009, 03:07   #38
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Quote:
P.S. No-one has got the reference to my character's name yet?
From Shining Force III? Never played it. That's what you get from asking a trivia question over a wikipedia-powered internet.

Now where are the damned cookies?
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Old June 4, 2009, 06:07   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
What you need to take away from this is that Phase Door is not a reliable escape.
Mostly phase is an attack spell. The way to use it to escape is that you read it first to get a few chances to try to portal without being pounded on as you fail. Even portal was sort of a mistake -- by 600K+ turns he should have managed a staff of teleportation..

With 5% or higher failure rate, you cannot afford to plan to die if you fail 3 times in a row. You need to adjust your playstyle to try not get into situations where such a thing will kill you.
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Old June 4, 2009, 07:45   #40
Pete Mack
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The only reason you died to a tiger is that you were doing 11.5 dam/turn against it. That is pitiful for a paladin or warrior. Use a lighter melée weapon-like a dagger or main gauche and enchant it up to +7 damage or better. With only one blow per round, you were effectively playing a challenge game. 3 or 4 blows is the norm for melée classes.
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