Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 20, 2018, 11:59   #41
Huqhox
Apprentice
 
Huqhox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Age: 48
Posts: 95
Huqhox is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
The town should *never* be a requirement for beating the game. If you need food to survive, it should be found in the dungeon in sufficient quantities.
That wasn't what I was saying, and in fact you agree with what wanted to say.

Rations of food are from the town because they are supplies from adventuring. Once in the dungeon you could survive on slime molds and mushrooms until magical forms of sustenance are available, so make mushrooms more nutritious to support this. Maybe get humanoids to drop food now and again.

Just an idea I'm throwing out, I'm not wedded to it
__________________
"This has not been a recording"
Huqhox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1, 2019, 12:27   #42
Muscleguy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 19
Muscleguy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
My gut feeling (heh) is that it should be kept, but I'm struggling to articulate why. Here are a few of my thoughts:
  • It does sometimes lead to interesting situations - I have occasionally run out of food when I still want to do stuff on a level, and had to forage/quaff healing potions;
  • Ironman should IMHO be really hard compared to non-ironman, and this is a move in the opposite direction;
  • The game should support a variety of experiences, and this is thinning out that variety.
This last one is something I feel strongly about as maintainer. It has always been a feature that the aim of Angband is to kill Morgoth, but that there's more than one way to do that. I want to be broadening the space of possible game trajectories, and I feel that removing mechanics like hunger is narrowing it.
The other thing is when you are Full or close to it and swallowing high level Heal, *Heal* and Life potions you risk getting Gorged which slows you by -10. Against some high level monsters this becomes a live issue. If you get rid of hunger than Gorging has to go as well and thus one part of the problem solving element of game play has gone as well.

But then I'm still playing 4.0.4 (dirty), the last usable version before big bang which I cannot abide, so you guys want to further bork the game, go right ahead, I will not be joining you.
Muscleguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1, 2019, 20:32   #43
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,577
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscleguy View Post
The other thing is when you are Full or close to it and swallowing high level Heal, *Heal* and Life potions you risk getting Gorged which slows you by -10. Against some high level monsters this becomes a live issue. If you get rid of hunger than Gorging has to go as well and thus one part of the problem solving element of game play has gone as well.
This was removed several versions ago -- potions still grant nutrition, but they can't make you gorged. I think this change predates 4.0.4, but I could be wrong.
Derakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 2, 2019, 00:26   #44
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,277
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscleguy View Post
But then I'm still playing 4.0.4 (dirty), the last usable version before big bang which I cannot abide, so you guys want to further bork the game, go right ahead, I will not be joining you.
The game has been being repeatedly borked since 1993, we're just carrying on the tradition
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 3, 2019, 11:27   #45
Muscleguy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 19
Muscleguy is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
This was removed several versions ago -- potions still grant nutrition, but they can't make you gorged. I think this change predates 4.0.4, but I could be wrong.
Just tested it, hadn't noticed it had changed. I think it's a shame since as I said it adds to the problem solving nature of the game. There are no healing scrolls just rods and magic/prayers. So if you are not a magic user or a priest/palladin and your ability to reliably zap rods is poor (and of course rods of Healing don't recharge quickly and they are rare, I've never had more than two).

Is all this change which makes the game easier driven by younger players who are put off by difficulty? or is it just change for the sake of change?

Anyway my feelings on the issue are clear. Had I realised gorging was gone I might have continued to use an older version. After trialling and rejecting the later ones I sought the latest non borked version and of course game files are not compatible between versions.

Still, I shall give it some thought and might revert further. It does show though that if you play assuming a feature is still live so operate with that in mind you may never realise it doesn't operate.
Muscleguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3, 2019, 16:01   #46
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,577
Derakon is on a distinguished road
It's been years since that change was made, so I can't remember the exact reasoning given, but I suspect it was something like "knowing that you need to work up some hunger before the Morgoth fight to avoid getting gorged is one of those weird things that basically just serves to trip up newbies." It was practically never an issue outside of the Morgoth fight since most other fights don't involve guzzling large numbers of healing potions, and you're statistically more likely to read Satisfy Hunger before the Morgoth fight than before any other.
Derakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 3, 2019, 16:26   #47
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,740
wobbly is on a distinguished road
I'm pretty glad gorged is gone myself. Pretending that hitting R 10000 enter before the final fight is adding tactical complexity is just that, a pretencence. It's a gimic rather then real difficulty.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16, 2019, 18:14   #48
Netbrian
Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 139
Netbrian is on a distinguished road
I'm OK with eliminating hunger altogether -- I don't think the added bookkeeping is worth the very, very rare cases where it's relevant. There are plenty of other ways to add flavor or complexity that don't come with this baggage.
Netbrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16, 2019, 18:46   #49
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,577
Derakon is on a distinguished road
It occurs to me that the modern equivalent of the hunger clock is forced-descent mode. It serves a similar purpose as old-school hunger clocks did, of forcing you to progress whether or not you feel ready. By similar measures, there's Sil's collapsing staircases, ADOM's corruption counter, the advancing fleet in FTL or Everspace, the ghost in Spelunky, etc.

Vanilla Angband pretty clearly does not have anything that forces the player to progress besides the player's own desire to progress, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but we may want to consider if there are more options we can add that, like forced-descent, act to push the player to play more aggressively.
Derakon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 16, 2019, 19:45   #50
tangar
Adept
 
tangar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 247
tangar is on a distinguished road
I like hunger system; 'gorged' also was fun. Eating is fun It brings more realism to the gameplay.

But it's always alright to add new 'birth' option for player who wish to play without it
__________________
http://angband.online - new PWMAngband server
tangar.info - my website ⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽⍽ My chars @ angband.oook.cz
youtube.com/GlazGame — streams in English ⍽ youtube.com/StreamGuild — streams in Russian
tangar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (2 members and 1 guests)
Derakon, Nick
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stop the Hunger Clock bio_hazard Idle chatter 3 November 13, 2016 21:02
How to get rid of the no-selling option Antoine Vanilla 40 August 29, 2013 15:06
need to get rid of artifacts... how to proceed? voirin Vanilla 26 September 4, 2009 09:15
Hunger-causing monsters Mangojuice Variants 6 July 18, 2008 19:28
Will we get rid of the 32 bit flag variables? Bandobras Vanilla 18 December 22, 2007 15:54


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.