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Old June 30, 2020, 15:25   #41
moosferatu
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Made it to DL 98!

I updated my character dump: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

How long should I hang out on 98 trying to find better loot and fighting uniques? My equipment doesn't seem that bad, though I would kind of like a different melee weapon. I understand that Sauron and Morgoth summon uniques. Is it recommended to kill a bunch more before proceeding?

Unrelated question about speed, I have "effective_speed" enabled and I've noticed that there appears to be diminishing returns for speed increases. For example, when wearing the gear in the dump and hasted, my speed is 4.0x. If I switch back to wielding Aglarang (speed +5) my effective speed is just increased to 4.1x. I don't quite understand what's going on here and if that minor increase is of any value.
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Old June 30, 2020, 16:00   #42
wobbly
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Code:
{
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* S-50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* S-40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
	/* S-30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
	/* S-20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
	/* S-10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
	/* Norm */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
	/* F+10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
	/* F+20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
	/* F+30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
	/* F+40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
	/* F+50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
	/* F+60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
	/* F+70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
	/* Fast */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
};
This is the energy table used by the game, you get an action when you reach 100 energy & at normal speed you get 10 energy/tick, +1 speed you get 11/tick etc. until it slows down at +26. So moving from +34 speed (40 energy) to +39 speed (41 energy) is only a small increase.

As far as whether it's worth it, more speed is always better, but the main pt to aim for is at least Morgoth speed (+30 speed).
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Old June 30, 2020, 17:39   #43
Pete Mack
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MoD (Holy Avenger) (+21,+21) is one of the best weapons in the game. I suppose a weapon with speed might be marginally better, but that character is hard to top.

You might want a better bow though, unless you plan to use melee against Morgoth. (For that, it makes a fine stat stick.) Amrod is a powerful mid game weapon, but doesn't do max damage like an x5 bow with big damage bonus. You can afford to give up CON, and STR is less useful if you are using archery.
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Old June 30, 2020, 18:21   #44
moosferatu
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Thanks wobbly and Pete! Good to know.

Little disappointed that a generic MoD is so good. I was hoping that maybe I'd find a cool artifact that was better, but it sounds like I shouldn't count on it.

Yeah, it would be nice to have a better bow. I've found it fairly discouraging trying to find good bows, but I'll grind 98 a bit to see if I can get one.
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Old June 30, 2020, 20:52   #45
Pete Mack
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MoD (HA)--especially with big damage bonus--is not generic, any more than a high-gamage x5 Longbow of Lothlorien. You are lucky to find even one in a game. Certain dwarven DSMs are better than most artifacts, too.
That said, if you do find an endgame bow, consider Aglarang for extra speed.
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Old June 30, 2020, 21:39   #46
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i would keep looking for items tbh, no pConf, no pBlind !!, those two can kill you.
On the other hand, 600 dmg vs evil is generally good enough to melee morgoth, but you would have to use the shield of preservation.
I also see you are stashing at home things you dont need, like wands of TO - you can cast this at 5% fail, same for ?Identify, etc
and you dont have ANY scrolls of MBan; that is very dangerous with Morgoth. Uniques can be teleported one at the time, but if the guy summons a bunch of dragons or liches you are going to be in trouble.
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Old June 30, 2020, 22:03   #47
Pete Mack
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pConf and blind are kinda overrated. You have 100% save and rLight/rDark, so only melee attacks can affect you. There just aren't that many bad monsters that do it (Giants and Cat Lord.)
Swap item (as you have) for confusion is good enough.
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Old June 30, 2020, 22:57   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
pConf and blind are kinda overrated. You have 100% save and rLight/rDark, so only melee attacks can affect you. There just aren't that many bad monsters that do it (Giants and Cat Lord.)
There are a few more now.
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Old June 30, 2020, 23:28   #49
moosferatu
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@Sky, I had pConf for most of the game and only lost it recently. I do find not having it quite annoying (Makar was suuuper irritating), but thought the stat boosts would be more useful.

Anyway, RIP Togstad. I got impatient grinding 98, and decided to proceed to 99 where I immediately found a nice bow of Lothlorien. I went home to stock up, and then headed back to fight Sauron. On the way, I encountered a greater balrog. I didn't feel particularly concerned about it because I'd taken care of Gothmog without much trouble. But, I forgot to drink !rFire.

Oh well.
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Old July 1, 2020, 00:15   #50
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Code:
{
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* S-50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/* S-40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
	/* S-30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
	/* S-20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
	/* S-10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
	/* Norm */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
	/* F+10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
	/* F+20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
	/* F+30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
	/* F+40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
	/* F+50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
	/* F+60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
	/* F+70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
	/* Fast */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
};
I always use the speed multiples display in-game. I've seen this table before, and obviously I knew about diminishing returns, but it's just now occurring to me that several speed levels are identical. E.g., speed -3 and -4 are the same, +28 and +29 are the same. In my mind the difference between +28 and +29 was less than previous upticks, but not zero. Conversely, it didn't occur to me that the difference between +34 and +35 is not diminished. To put it another way, I haven't been aware of the break-points.

Last edited by DavidMedley; July 1, 2020 at 12:55.
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