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Old September 23, 2015, 14:35   #41
Nick
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'With a suddenness that startled them all the wizard sprang to his feet. He was laughing! "I have it!" he cried. "Of course, of course!"'


Sure sounds like it.
That was relief. The previous hour had been no fun at all.
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Old September 23, 2015, 15:46   #42
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That was relief. The previous hour had been no fun at all.
No magical detection of doors. No magical dealing with traps. Seems there's a large anti-red-book sentiment hereabouts. As was mentioned before, don't forget the mage-bargain. They are super weak and in return they are given magical mastery of the dungeon. Mages are already inferior to rogues vs. traps. Mages have to m-b-c every single step through long trapped corridors of a vault, having to make a tradeoff vs. spending a turn attacking/dealing with a monster, while rogues (at least once they reach 100% disarming) just wade through traps like they're not there.
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Old September 23, 2015, 16:00   #43
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No magical detection of doors. No magical dealing with traps. Seems there's a large anti-red-book sentiment hereabouts. As was mentioned before, don't forget the mage-bargain. They are super weak and in return they are given magical mastery of the dungeon. Mages are already inferior to rogues vs. traps. Mages have to m-b-c every single step through long trapped corridors of a vault, having to make a tradeoff vs. spending a turn attacking/dealing with a monster, while rogues (at least once they reach 100% disarming) just wade through traps like they're not there.
?????

Mages are in no way forced to disarm traps while monsters are in LoS. What are you talking about?
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Old September 23, 2015, 16:43   #44
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  • No more door detection
  • Doors are identified as such as soon as they're in LOS
Are there still going to be secret doors? If there are, is this another perception check?
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Old September 23, 2015, 17:48   #45
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?????

Mages are in no way forced to disarm traps while monsters are in LoS. What are you talking about?
Nobody's forced to "not step on a trap." The claim was made that mages are equal to rogues in terms of traps, I was pointing out that they must spend (small cost, to be sure) mana on disarming them (actually my point may be slightly less valid if the rogue still must spend a turn disarming, I realized). So the rogue at 100% disarming is already in a (slightly) superior position than mages WRT traps.
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Old September 23, 2015, 17:52   #46
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?????

Mages are in no way forced to disarm traps while monsters are in LoS. What are you talking about?
Can you post a youtube video of you playing? Would be fun to see.
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Old September 23, 2015, 18:05   #47
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Originally Posted by Bogatyr View Post
Nobody's forced to "not step on a trap." The claim was made that mages are equal to rogues in terms of traps, I was pointing out that they must spend (small cost, to be sure) mana on disarming them (actually my point may be slightly less valid if the rogue still must spend a turn disarming, I realized). So the rogue at 100% disarming is already in a (slightly) superior position than mages WRT traps.
How soon do you expect a rogue to achieve 100% disarm rates? How early is the mage given their disarming spell? Remember that disarming can take multiple turns even if it is safe (i.e. without risk of triggering the trap).

In any event, I don't think people are opposed to red-book casters; the goal is merely to not give them a free pass from having to deal with an obstacle that everyone else must cope with. Of course ideally different classes deal with traps in different ways, but nobody should be able to ignore them outright except for certain limited cases in the late game (a rogue with 18/220 DEX should be able to walk freely through traps without them ever triggering).
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Old September 23, 2015, 21:51   #48
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How soon do you expect a rogue to achieve 100% disarm rates? How early is the mage given their disarming spell? Remember that disarming can take multiple turns even if it is safe (i.e. without risk of triggering the trap).

In any event, I don't think people are opposed to red-book casters; the goal is merely to not give them a free pass from having to deal with an obstacle that everyone else must cope with. Of course ideally different classes deal with traps in different ways, but nobody should be able to ignore them outright except for certain limited cases in the late game (a rogue with 18/220 DEX should be able to walk freely through traps without them ever triggering).
In what universe is "having to cast disarm every step" equivalent to "able to ignore them outright?"
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Old September 23, 2015, 22:17   #49
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Are there still going to be secret doors? If there are, is this another perception check?
No, no more secret doors. Or, if you like, doors are secret until you get LOS on them.
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Old September 23, 2015, 22:18   #50
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No magical detection of doors. No magical dealing with traps. Seems there's a large anti-red-book sentiment hereabouts.
Don't worry, everyone else will be punished too
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