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Old July 2, 2020, 14:47   #1
drquicksilver
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bugged(?) death and minor 4.2.1 issues

Hi,

First played Angband 25+ years ago, just downloaded a recent version to try it out. Really enjoyed the tweaked monster and spell lists and new ID system.

I seem to be doing better than I used to, after a few tries I had a promising high elf mage make it through stat gain, up to clevel 43 and 3100', base speed +17 and it felt like I was on cruise control. Killed Saruman without any great issues.

Death was strange though. I was fighting one of the "Maia of <...>" monsters, not sure which one - Orome or Mandos maybe - and it shapeshifted into a shard storm. The next round it breathed on me taking me from nearly full HP (max was 575) to *exactly* zero HP, with a deep cut. I used the Crown of Gondor which cured the cut and put me back to 500HP and it breathed again; again taking me to exactly zero HP and badly cut. Then I did a stupid thing and tried Mass Banishment and it's actually that which killed me....

Still it seems suspicious to go exactly to zero, twice? I guess I learnt something about being wary of the damage from breath weapons from polymorphed creatures, though. Certainly never had any problem with normal shard storms and had killed several 'A' without problems.

Other minor issues with 4.2.1:

With rogue like keys, some of the 'alter/tunnel' commands are over-ridden by other things: ^H brings up the "use ? for help" message instead of tunnelling to the left, and ^J brings up the onscreen menu (I would have thought SDL has a different key code for RET to ^J?).

Sometimes the animations pause on the final(?) frame so you see a breath or beam fully extended for over a second; it seems like pressing any key clears them or they clear on the own. Doesn't happen every time anyway.

Finally a thought on Priest spells (since I tried a priest after the mage) - I agree with the comments in the big "class/magic feature branch" thread that Dispel Evil just doesn't really work at present. Orb is *so* good for a big chunk of the game and spending 3x the mana for a spell which does 1/2 the damage to evil (and no damage at all to non-evil) just doesn't work. I know Orb only does full damage to the central square but even so - Orb's positionable splash is so useful for firing around corners, for choosing which sleeping enemies to awaken. Dispel Evil "forces" you to get lots of enemies in LoS to get value from it; waking them all up is also a big price to pay and potentially a terrible idea if they have any ranged attack options. Possible ways to fix it are (1) double the damage (2) halve the mana cost (3) give it some auxiliary effect like a chance to fear or confuse the victims ("they are awed by your holy might") which might reduce the odds they all activate their ranged attacks at once


thanks for all the hard work
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Old July 2, 2020, 14:59   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
Hi,

Death was strange though. I was fighting one of the "Maia of <...>" monsters, not sure which one - Orome or Mandos maybe - and it shapeshifted into a shard storm. The next round it breathed on me taking me from nearly full HP (max was 575) to *exactly* zero HP, with a deep cut. I used the Crown of Gondor which cured the cut and put me back to 500HP and it breathed again; again taking me to exactly zero HP and badly cut. Then I did a stupid thing and tried Mass Banishment and it's actually that which killed me....

Still it seems suspicious to go exactly to zero, twice? I guess I learnt something about being wary of the damage from breath weapons from polymorphed creatures, though. Certainly never had any problem with normal shard storms and had killed several 'A' without problems.
I believe the damage cap for Shards (not resisted) is exactly 500 so seems legit to me. Although a regular shardstorm would not breathe for anywhere near that damage, it was shapeshifted from a Maia. If the Maia has 3000 HP plus which many of them do, then the shapeshifted form will breathe according to the HP / power of the Maia, not the shardstorm. So 1/6 of 3000 HP would generate the maximum damage of 500 HP.

I hope that clears it up a bit, shapeshifting is new to the 4.2.x releases.
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Old July 2, 2020, 22:49   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
Death was strange though. I was fighting one of the "Maia of <...>" monsters, not sure which one - Orome or Mandos maybe - and it shapeshifted into a shard storm. The next round it breathed on me taking me from nearly full HP (max was 575) to *exactly* zero HP, with a deep cut. I used the Crown of Gondor which cured the cut and put me back to 500HP and it breathed again; again taking me to exactly zero HP and badly cut. Then I did a stupid thing and tried Mass Banishment and it's actually that which killed me....

Still it seems suspicious to go exactly to zero, twice? I guess I learnt something about being wary of the damage from breath weapons from polymorphed creatures, though. Certainly never had any problem with normal shard storms and had killed several 'A' without problems.
I think the above explanation covers it - and it was just a coincidence that you happened to be on 500 HP before the first breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
With rogue like keys, some of the 'alter/tunnel' commands are over-ridden by other things: ^H brings up the "use ? for help" message instead of tunnelling to the left, and ^J brings up the onscreen menu (I would have thought SDL has a different key code for RET to ^J?).
I'll look into this - anyone else have problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
Sometimes the animations pause on the final(?) frame so you see a breath or beam fully extended for over a second; it seems like pressing any key clears them or they clear on the own. Doesn't happen every time anyway.
This may be something to do with the display code checking a number of other possible grids, but not ending up displaying any explosion on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
Finally a thought on Priest spells (since I tried a priest after the mage) - I agree with the comments in the big "class/magic feature branch" thread that Dispel Evil just doesn't really work at present. Orb is *so* good for a big chunk of the game and spending 3x the mana for a spell which does 1/2 the damage to evil (and no damage at all to non-evil) just doesn't work. I know Orb only does full damage to the central square but even so - Orb's positionable splash is so useful for firing around corners, for choosing which sleeping enemies to awaken. Dispel Evil "forces" you to get lots of enemies in LoS to get value from it; waking them all up is also a big price to pay and potentially a terrible idea if they have any ranged attack options. Possible ways to fix it are (1) double the damage (2) halve the mana cost (3) give it some auxiliary effect like a chance to fear or confuse the victims ("they are awed by your holy might") which might reduce the odds they all activate their ranged attacks at once
I'll have a look. Priests were the least changed of the classes, and possibly didn't get quite the attention they deserved.

Thanks for the comments.
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Old July 2, 2020, 23:19   #4
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Having just played an excessively long Priest game:

You can just destruct everything.

If you want to kill things however:

Spell damage against non-evil creatures is low. Measse, Tarrasque and Huan are basically just waste of MP, unless you have Staff of Magi to restore HP. I've killed Tarrasque as a priest and that took a LONG time to do.

Basically, a priest should not be engaging late-game maiar. Destroy the area, leave the level, anything. Normal 'A' are very hard to wake up and those are usually not much trouble. But if you come up with one of those late game maiar-vaults, GTFO or destruct.

This pretty much applies for any class. No point of fighting 'A'.
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Old July 3, 2020, 07:32   #5
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Originally Posted by drquicksilver View Post
With rogue like keys, some of the 'alter/tunnel' commands are over-ridden by other things: ^H brings up the "use ? for help" message instead of tunnelling to the left, and ^J brings up the onscreen menu (I would have thought SDL has a different key code for RET to ^J?).
This must be frontend-dependent; they work fine for me on -msdl2 on Linux. What frontend are you using? -msdl?
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Old July 3, 2020, 08:35   #6
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This must be frontend-dependent; they work fine for me on -msdl2 on Linux. What frontend are you using? -msdl?
Precompiled MacOS version from rephial.org (I should have said that in the first post, sorry!)
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