3.1.0, Minor annoyance.

NeoWizard · January 19, 2009, 17:39

Can I have my numeric keypad the way it was.

When in the store I used to be able enter qty using the keypad eve with numlock off. Why has it been changed?

I find it annoying to have to go to the top row of numbers instead of the keypad or press numlock just to be able to quickly enter a qty!

takkaria · January 19, 2009, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoWizard

Can I have my numeric keypad the way it was.

When in the store I used to be able enter qty using the keypad eve with numlock off. Why has it been changed?

I find it annoying to have to go to the top row of numbers instead of the keypad or press numlock just to be able to quickly enter a qty!

I'm afraid not. Angband now sees directions and number keys as different things whereas before it didn't; to change this back would be a regression.

Donald Jonker · January 19, 2009, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by takkaria

I'm afraid not. Angband now sees directions and number keys as different things whereas before it didn't; to change this back would be a regression.

This is a bit of a shame. NPP manages to have a fully functional numpad, numlock on or off, so you can access magic books and other things (@m2, @z2, &c) with even numbers without using the top row of numbers. But as Neowizard says, it's only a minor annoyance.

takkaria · January 19, 2009, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Jonker

This is a bit of a shame. NPP manages to have a fully functional numpad, numlock on or off, so you can access magic books and other things (@m2, @z2, &c) with even numbers without using the top row of numbers. But as Neowizard says, it's only a minor annoyance.

Well, NPP doesn't treat arrows as different from 2468. V does, so it can allow you to edit text you typego back to 3.0.6, change your character name, and notice how all you can do is delete the last character or type a new one. 3.0.8 or thereabouts introduced the ability to go back without deleting.

Donald Jonker · January 19, 2009, 20:59

Ah, I didn't realize there was a trade-off there. I would prefer the former functionality, but the change makes sense. By the by, would there be a ready and easy way to edit the pref files to get it to work the way I envision it (I'm guessing not, but Nick walked me through something similar with faangband)? If it's any trouble at all, please don't be bothered about it.

edit: here's the thread for messing with the faangband numpad... would that work for vanilla as well?

Nick · January 19, 2009, 22:38

The other big reason for distinguishing arrows and numbers is for use in menus. It makes sense to me that numbers and arrows should be different; the fact they were treated the same is due to constraints that no longer exist. The challenge for maintainers is to redesign the UI to be as simple and effective as possible in the new, less-constrained environment; the challenge for players is to recognise which of the new annoyances are because of decreased functionality, and which are just a result of having to change old habits.

Summary: get over it

Donald Jonker · January 19, 2009, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Summary: get over it

You can have my numpad... when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers...

Atarlost · January 20, 2009, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

It makes sense to me that numbers and arrows should be different;

It makes sense for numbers to be treated differently from arrows, but it does not make sense for keys in the number pad to be treated as arrows when numlock is on.

Nick · January 20, 2009, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarlost

It makes sense for numbers to be treated differently from arrows, but it does not make sense for keys in the number pad to be treated as arrows when numlock is on.

True. I can't recall what the current situation is in V or FA (I use a laptop, and linux), but I do know the number/arrow/numpad/windows/prf files issues are an ongoing nuisance. One day we'll get it right.

takkaria · January 20, 2009, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarlost

It makes sense for numbers to be treated differently from arrows, but it does not make sense for keys in the number pad to be treated as arrows when numlock is on.

I was under the impression that this thread was about having to turn numlock on to get numbers, rather than numlock not working?

January 19, 2009, 17:39	#1
NeoWizard Adept Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec Posts: 102	3.1.0, Minor annoyance. Can I have my numeric keypad the way it was. When in the store I used to be able enter qty using the keypad eve with numlock off. Why has it been changed? I find it annoying to have to go to the top row of numbers instead of the keypad or press numlock just to be able to quickly enter a qty! __________________ NeoWizard -. . --- .-- .. --.. .- .-. -.. aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. fi yuo cna raed tihs, palce it in yuor siantugre. Olny 55% of plepoe can. mtat

January 19, 2009, 20:59	#5
Donald Jonker Knight Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 593	Ah, I didn't realize there was a trade-off there. I would prefer the former functionality, but the change makes sense. By the by, would there be a ready and easy way to edit the pref files to get it to work the way I envision it (I'm guessing not, but Nick walked me through something similar with faangband)? If it's any trouble at all, please don't be bothered about it. edit: here's the thread for messing with the faangband numpad... would that work for vanilla as well? Last edited by Donald Jonker; January 19, 2009 at 21:29.

January 19, 2009, 22:38	#6
Nick FAangband maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 3,722 Donated: $60	The other big reason for distinguishing arrows and numbers is for use in menus. It makes sense to me that numbers and arrows should be different; the fact they were treated the same is due to constraints that no longer exist. The challenge for maintainers is to redesign the UI to be as simple and effective as possible in the new, less-constrained environment; the challenge for players is to recognise which of the new annoyances are because of decreased functionality, and which are just a result of having to change old habits. Summary: get over it __________________ "There is no safety. There is no end. The word must be heard in silence. There must be darkness to see the stars. The dance is always danced above the hollow place, above the terrible abyss." - The Farthest Shore, Ursula Le Guin

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