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View Poll Results: What changes should be made to zephyr hounds in V?
None - leave them as they are 29 40.28%
Minor tweaking (e.g. increase rarities by one) 30 41.67%
Major nerfing (e.g. rarer, dumber AI, smaller packs, lower hp) 7 9.72%
Remove them altogether 6 8.33%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 18, 2009, 22:02   #41
Magnate
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Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.
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Old February 18, 2009, 23:08   #42
Malak Darkhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.
I agree completely, no other monster is a troublsome, louses, lice, fly's, all the usually bothersome breeders, are as numerous on levels as hounds, hounds are easy xp that's true, but it's not worth it the trouble, and you can't dive straight down 10 levels just to get away from them. It is as I said earlier, other variants I've played I have no problem with hounds, in V though their infuriating, I've never seen a monster actually back away from you as you approach them just so they can breath on you. The strange thing is they even breath on you around corners, like they've got some kind of wing around the corner breath shot. I'm sorry I've been playing these games for over 20 years, since the birth of moria, and never been so irritated at a monster group in the game prevalent on so many levels. I think spellcasters have an easier time at it, but warriors get screwed pretty bad by them. By the time hounds appear you just don't have that much damage or good equipment to kill them quickly, they might need to be lowered to a deeper depth, personally I think I'll just stick to playing variants like 0 and Sang until V has a few more favorable changes that might make me want to play it again. Note Npp made changes to hounds-they acknowledged there were to many of them, I think that in itself gives good reason to have this poll.
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Old February 19, 2009, 07:35   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRimmer View Post
IMO, energy hounds are the gifts of the RNG.
except when you just found your first wand of Teleport Other

but i agree, the earlier hounds are a great source of exp - the only possible problem i see is not in how common they are or how they behave, but in how many are generated in a single pack - the number could be toned down a bit.

EDIT: i don't know how monster generation works, but maybe it could be possible to use an algorithm that decreases exponentially the chances of placing a hound pack in the level as more packs are already placed - this would adddress one of the major complaints, too many packs generated in the 20's

Nexus/Gravity hounds are totally a different matter, i directly leave the level when i detect them, but that is because of my playstile more than anything else - removing them would take out an interesting and challenging part of the game. Besides, they are not that common in any case.

In any case i like the game as it is, no change / minor changes are both perfectly fine for me; i really hope that takkaria doesn't remove them or majorly nerf them (but i'm in the camp that doesn't really care about the tolkien lore - oh, the horror! - but rather is a lot more concerned about gameplay)

Last edited by bebo; February 19, 2009 at 07:47.
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Old February 19, 2009, 08:17   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Well, even after adjusting all the Z rarities, I've now turned off smart packs. It's just infuriating the way they run away from you, unlike any other monster in the game. I'm definitely moving away from the comfort of majority opinion and towards major nerfing. I find myself able to acknowledge the validity of all the other challenges Nick lists, but not hounds.
If they are too frustrating, ignore them. Smart packs makes it possible to walk away and leave them behind. (And there are ways to keep them from running.)
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:09   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
If they are too frustrating, ignore them. Smart packs makes it possible to walk away and leave them behind. (And there are ways to keep them from running.)
You know it's not that simple. Smart packs does not enable you to leave them behind at normal speed. And frequently they are between you and the stairs.

Nerf them. Nerf them I say!

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Old February 19, 2009, 11:00   #46
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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Nerf them. Nerf them I say!
The Nerf Hound breathes nerf. You ignore the attack.
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Old February 19, 2009, 11:16   #47
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The Nerf Hound breathes nerf. You ignore the attack.
The Nerth Hound breathes nerf. You are nerfed! Your attack bonus is zero. Your damage bonus is zero. You feel like playing WoW.
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Old February 19, 2009, 13:40   #48
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
The Nerf Hound breathes nerf. You ignore the attack.
I suspect you got the case wrong. The Nerfing hound breathes nerfing:

N:203:Nerfing hound
G:Z:w
I:110:0d0:30:30:0
W:15:1:0:0
B:CLAW:HURT:0d0
B:CLAW:HURT:0d0
B:BITE:HURT:0d0
F:ANIMAL | INVISIBLE | FRIENDS
F:ATTR_CLEAR | COLD_BLOOD | EMPTY_MIND
F:BASH_DOOR
S:1_IN_6
S:BR_NERFING
D:A completely imperceptible hound.
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Old April 21, 2009, 17:17   #49
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This is a little stale but it's been on my mind lately.

I think the big packs are okay, I think the large number of varieties around 1000' is good, and I think the rarity of those hounds is tolerable - all together I think it's a bit much when you get unlucky and the RNG tosses three or more at you from different directions on the same level. I would be happy with a minor adjustment to rarity and/or pack size for the basic six elemental hounds (Cold, Fire, Elec, Acid, Air, Earth). I feel like this wouldn't alter the strategic element of Zs (GFOD), but would decrease the chance of becoming hopelessly boxed in at a level where you can't reasonably deal with it. Honestly, I just spam > from 1000' to 1500', and that probably wouldn't change no matter what anyone does to Zepher hounds.

Smart AI is pretty annoying, but as noted you can almost ignore hounds and walk away (if you're not blocked or surrounded) since they won't pursue you into corridors. On top of that, you can rest as much as you want, as long as you don't get too low and trigger their critical health behavior. I still don't fully understand how to deal with killing smart AI hounds -- does this adaptation of the hockey stick work?

Code:
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##.Z.ZZ.
##.#####
#.@.####
##.#####
Does anyone know how many open tiles adjacent to the player the hounds want before they'll pursue? If it's only three you could stand one back and they couldn't cut your escape route off.

Last edited by Marble Dice; April 21, 2009 at 17:24.
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Old April 22, 2009, 04:30   #50
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Your basic idea of modifying a corridor to trick smart hounds is fine. You may need to do a little more contiguous digging if you want to get them into melee.
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