To love the Rogue

[shevek]

So for this first time I'm seriously playing a rogue, and I'm loving it! I'm a hobbit rogue and its so much fun. I think the melee boost in 3.1 is probably part of it, but in any case, I had never really tried one and it may become my favorite class. I love sneaking around the dungeon.

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by shevek

So for this first time I'm seriously playing a rogue, and I'm loving it! I'm a hobbit rogue and its so much fun. I think the melee boost in 3.1 is probably part of it, but in any case, I had never really tried one and it may become my favorite class. I love sneaking around the dungeon.

Yes, they're great. I play High Elf rogues, because they're almost cheesily stealthy and enable me to dive very quickly. I can now reliably get to 3000' in around 100k turns - but the problem is that I've usually got <300hp so things start getting very dangerous. I might try playing a slightly less stealthy character so that I have to go a bit more slowly ...

CC

[Pete Mack]

Yep, I'm a fan. I learned to love the class playing NPP and Quickband, where it's even more formidable. (I prefer High Elf and Kobold as the most straightforward choices for class.) Kobold has a few more HP than hobbit, and intrinsic RPoison is far more useful than RLife.

[PowerDiver]

I really like half-troll rogues because they can test potions and step onto traps without losing blows.

[Pete Mack]

@eddie,
that is not at all the reason I expected. I figured it was for the big boost in STR (3 blows to start) and HP (bigger dice, bigger CON) and faster regen of both HP and SP.

I like HT Rogue, too. But I still find the high-stealth races a bit more tractable.

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by Pete Mack

@eddie,
that is not at all the reason I expected. I figured it was for the big boost in STR (3 blows to start) and HP (bigger dice, bigger CON) and faster regen of both HP and SP.

I think, especially with the new generation system, you can get 3 blows with other races, but then just one hit to STR or DEX and you are down to 2 blows.

I find the game much more fun when I quaff potions to identify them, and that means that with any race other than a half-troll I drop to 2 blows even if I start with 3.

Your points are all spot on, and I used to think they were the difference, but I have decided the lack of stealth and magic-device rates counteract them somewhat over the course of a game. I now prefer half-trolls primarily because I can test potions without worrying. I don't think they are necessarily better [though they may be], but are simply more fun.

[Pete Mack]

Stat drains from potions just don't happen anymore. (Stat drain potions are eliminated in 3.1, and replaced with +1,-1 potions that almost never show up in a dive.) Same holds for mushrooms. That leaves traps, and I almost never run into a drain strength trap before I can cast detect traps reliably as a half-decent casting Rogue. (You reach cl 20 fast as a Kobold, and there's a pretty good chance of finding a Rod or staff of Trap Detection.)

[shevek]

Well, my hobbit died YASD (white wolves). Maybe I'll try one of the other suggested races (HE, Kobold, HT).

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by Pete Mack

Stat drains from potions just don't happen anymore. (Stat drain potions are eliminated in 3.1, and replaced with +1,-1 potions that almost never show up in a dive.) Same holds for mushrooms. That leaves traps, and I almost never run into a drain strength trap before I can cast detect traps reliably as a half-decent casting Rogue. (You reach cl 20 fast as a Kobold, and there's a pretty good chance of finding a Rod or staff of Trap Detection.)

I guess I haven't really made the transition to 3.1 yet.

[Mondkalb]

I had one rogue winner and tried numerous other without further luck. But today things seem to change.

This is going to be ridiculous.
I am playing a Kobold rogue, starting today. I had a little bit of trouble, but found a whip of extra blows (+2) at 500 feet or so and went down fast (very lucky). With five blows due to a ring of speed all the orc bosses were no problem for the first time in my Angband life.

I worried about see invisible and free action because their was nothing to be seen either in the dungeon nor in the black market until:
The Cloak of Thorongil dropped by Wormtongue at 1000 feet (level 20)
That was right in time I thougt.

Next level:
The Long Sword Anduril lying on the floor at 1050 feet (level 21)
That gives me another boost. Recalled to town, dropped the ring of damage and bought a ring of dexterity in the black market so I get three blows with Anduril.
This means also an early end for the Mim family, because of rDisenchant.

Back in the dungeon:
The Cloak Holcolleth dropped by Angamaite of Umbar at 1400 feet (level 28)
even better than Thorongil with +2 speed.

The Phial of Galadriel dropped by an Algroth on 1650 feet (level 33)

The Spear Nimloth dropped by a Forest Troll at 1700 feet (level 34)
The Zweihander Gurthang dropped by a Cave Troll at 1700 feet (level 34)
The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil droped by a Ghoul at 1700 feet (level 34)

I'm scared to hell of going deeper.
Probably some terrible out of depth monster lurks around the next corner. ^^

  [Angband 3.1.1 dev (r1415) Character Dump]

 Name   Gonilith                                 Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Sex    Male         Age             24   STR:     17  -1  +2  +6  18/60
 Race   Kobold       Height          36   INT:     16  -1  +1  +4  18/20
 Class  Rogue        Weight          64   WIS:     11  +0  -2  +4     13
 Title  Filcher      Social     Unknown   DEX:     15  +2  +3  +6  18/80
 HP     250/250      Maximize         Y   CON:     15  +2  +1  +0     18
 SP     42/43                             CHR:     11  -2  -1  +0      8


 Level               29   Armor    [18,+60]     Saving Throw         58%
 Cur Exp          78171   Fight     (+4,+3)     Stealth           Heroic
 Max Exp          78171   Melee   (+14,+18)     Fighting          Heroic
 Adv Exp         105000   Shoot    (+14,+9)     Shooting          Superb
 MaxDepth   1700' (L34)   Blows      3/turn     Disarming           100%
 Turns           453697   Shots      2/turn     Magic Device      Superb
 Gold             18268   Infra       60 ft     Perception       1 in 11
 Burden       174.7 lbs   Speed           2     Searching            47%

 You come from a litter of 5 pups. Your father was a shaman, and your
 mother was a cook. You have brown eyes, a deep blue hide, and small,
 sharp teeth.


 Acid:......++..... Confu:.............
 Elec:......+...... Sound:.............
 Fire:+.....+...... Shard:.............
 Cold:......+...... Nexus:.............
 Pois:............+ Nethr:.............
 Fear:+............ Chaos:.............
 Lite:............. Disen:+............
 Dark:............. S.Dig:.............
Blind:.........+... Feath:.............

PLite:............. Aggrv:.............
Regen:............. Stea.:.......+...+.
Telep:.........+... Sear.:.............
Invis:+............ Infra:....+.......+
FrAct:+.........+.. Tunn.:.............
HLife:............. Speed:.......+.....
ImpHP:............. Blows:.............
ImpSP:............. Shots:.+...........
 Fear:............. Might:.............


  [Character Equipment]

a) The Long Sword 'Anduril' (3d5) (+10,+15) [+10] (+4)
     +4 strength, dexterity.
     Slays evil creatures, undead, orcs, trolls.
     Branded with flames.
     Provides resistance to fire, fear, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains strength, dexterity.
     Blessed by the gods.
     Prevents paralysis.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     
     When activated, it creates a fire bolt with damage 72.
     Takes 48 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     
     Combat info:
     3 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 38.1 vs. evil creatures, 47.6 vs. undead, 47.6
     vs. orcs, 47.6 vs. trolls, 47.6 vs. creatures not resistant to
     fire, and 28.5 vs. others.
     
b) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+10,+9) (+1)
     +1 shooting speed.
     
c) a Corundum Ring of Dexterity (+2)
     +2 dexterity.
     Sustains dexterity.
     
d) a Garnet Ring of Strength (+2)
     +2 strength.
     Sustains strength.
     
e) a Tortoise Shell Amulet of Infravision (+1)
     +1 infravision.
     
f) The Phial of Galadriel
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting light-s
     ensitive creatures.
     Takes 13 to 24 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     
     Radius 3 light.
g) Studded Leather Armour of Resistance (-1) [6,+16]
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
h) The Cloak 'Holcolleth' [1,+4] (+2)
     +2 intelligence, wisdom, stealth, speed.
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     When activated, it puts to sleep the monsters around you.
     Takes 66 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     
i) a Wicker Shield [2,+3]
j) The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil [2,+10] (+2)
     +2 intelligence, wisdom.
     Provides resistance to blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants telepathy.
     
k) a Set of Leather Gloves of Free Action [1,+12]
     Prevents paralysis.
     
l) a Pair of Steel Shod Boots of Stealth [6,+1] (+3)
     +3 stealth.
     


  [Character Inventory]

a) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners]
b) 3 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks]
c) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
d) 14 Puce Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
     
e) a Scroll titled "sus preo jus" of Teleportation {!*}
f) 2 Scrolls titled "prora pror pro" of Word of Recall {!*}
g) a Titanium Rod of Fire Bolts
h) a Chromium Rod of Slow Monster
i) an Aluminum Rod of Sleep Monster
j) a Rusty Rod of Curing
     Cannot be harmed by electricity.
     
k) a Nickel Rod of Light
l) 2 Gold-Plated Wands of Teleport Other (14 charges)
     
m) a Locust Staff of Mapping (5 charges)
     
n) an Opal Ring of Damage (+0,+7)
o) a Pair of Iron Shod Boots of Stability [3,+11]
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Feather Falling.
     
p) a Cutlass (Holy Avenger) (1d8) (+7,+12) [+1] (+1)
     +1 wisdom.
     Slays evil creatures, undead, demons.
     Provides resistance to fear.
     Sustains charisma.
     Blessed by the gods.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     Average damage/hit: 25.1 vs. evil creatures, 29.8 vs. undead, 29.8
     vs. demons, and 20.4 vs. others.
     
q) a Tulwar of Flame (2d4) (+9,+9)
     Branded with flames.
     Provides resistance to fire.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     Average damage/hit: 28.3 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, and 
     17.8 vs. others.
     
r) a Katana of Acid (3d5) (+6,+7)
     Branded with acid.
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     Average damage/hit: 38.8 vs. creatures not resistant to acid, and 
     19.9 vs. others.
     
s) a Katana of Slay Demon (3d5) (+4,+2)
     Slays demons.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     Average damage/hit: 33.5 vs. demons, and 14.6 vs. others.
     
t) The Zweihander 'Gurthang' (3d6) (+13,+17) (+2)
     +2 strength.
     *Slays* dragons.
     Branded with flames, venom.
     Provides resistance to fire, poison.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Slows your metabolism.
     Speeds regeneration.
     Prevents paralysis.
     
     Combat info:
     1 blow/round.
     Average damage/hit: 56 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 56 vs.
     creatures not resistant to poison, 78.9 vs. dragons, and 33.1 vs.
     others.
     
u) The Spear 'Nimloth' (1d6) (+11,+13) (+3)
     +3 stealth, speed.
     Slays undead.
     Branded with frost.
     Provides resistance to cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Blessed by the gods.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     
     Combat info:
     2 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 27.5 vs. undead, 27.5 vs. creatures not
     resistant to cold, and 20.2 vs. others.
     
v) 15 Arrows (1d4) (+7,+8)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 59.6.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
w) 16 Arrows (1d4) (+2,+2)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
     Average damage/hit: 40.9.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) 25 Scrolls titled "cono reor" of Phase Door
b) The Cloak of Thorongil [1,+10]
     Provides resistance to acid, fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Prevents paralysis.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.
     


============================================================
                   CHAR.
|   TURN  | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
         1      0'    1   Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      4621     50'    2   Reached level 2
      6082    100'    2   Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
      6082    100'    3   Reached level 3
      9192    100'    4   Reached level 4
     16898    200'    5   Reached level 5
     22759    200'    6   Reached level 6
     27909    250'    7   Reached level 7
     40094    250'    8   Reached level 8
     64961    400'    9   Reached level 9
     79172    400'   10   Reached level 10
     91912    450'   11   Reached level 11
    112870    500'   12   Reached level 12
    120883    500'   13   Reached level 13
    140640    600'   14   Reached level 14
    140940    600'   15   Reached level 15
    146356    600'   15   Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
    159684    700'   16   Reached level 16
    187210    750'   16   Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    188838    750'   17   Reached level 17
    198372    750'   17   Killed Grishnakh, the Hill Orc
    198372    750'   18   Reached level 18
    214682    800'   19   Reached level 19
    224637    850'   20   Reached level 20
    244421    900'   21   Reached level 21
    258100    950'   22   Reached level 22
    262754    950'   22   Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
    264958   1000'   22   Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
    264998   1000'   22   Found The Cloak of Thorongil
    265489   1000'   23   Reached level 23
    267015   1000'   23   Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
    271336   1050'   23   Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
    271336   1050'   24   Reached level 24
    274922   1050'   24   Found The Long Sword 'Anduril'
    279610   1050'   25   Reached level 25
    312542   1150'   25   Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
    320888   1150'   26   Reached level 26
    346105   1300'   26   Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
    355531   1400'   26   Killed Angamaite of Umbar
    355541   1400'   26   Found The Cloak 'Holcolleth'
    360523   1400'   26   Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
    374214   1450'   27   Reached level 27
    410996   1600'   27   Killed Ibun, Son of Mim
    429627   1650'   27   Found The Phial of Galadriel
    431052   1650'   28   Reached level 28
    431161   1650'   28   Killed Ugluk, the Uruk
    434220   1650'   28   Killed Smeagol
    438297   1650'   28   Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
    442358   1700'   28   Found The Spear 'Nimloth'
    442692   1700'   29   Reached level 29
    444935   1700'   29   Found The Zweihander 'Gurthang'
    448749   1700'   29   Found The Hard Leather Cap of Thranduil


  [Options]

Maximize effect of race/class bonuses        : yes (adult_maximize)
Randomize some of the artifacts (beta)       : no  (adult_randarts)
Restrict the use of stairs/recall            : no  (adult_ironman)
Restrict the use of stores/home              : no  (adult_no_stores)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (adult_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (adult_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (adult_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (adult_no_stairs)
Adult: Monsters chase current location       : yes (adult_ai_sound)
Adult: Monsters chase recent locations       : yes (adult_ai_smell)
Adult: Monsters act smarter in groups        : yes (adult_ai_packs)
Adult: Monsters learn from their mistakes    : no  (adult_ai_learn)
Adult: Monsters exploit players weaknesses   : no  (adult_ai_cheat)
Adult: Monsters behave more intelligently (broken): no  (adult_ai_smart)
Score: Peek into object creation             : no  (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation            : no  (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation            : no  (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else              : no  (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info            : no  (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death           : no  (score_live)