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Old August 17, 2007, 01:18   #11
Matthias
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At least in the case of Entro it defentily doesn't make the game easier. The levels get reset once you recall, so dungeon stashing isn't an option.

There is usually not much reason why you would want to return to an already cleared level, while on the other hand it effectivly removes stairscumming.
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Old August 17, 2007, 01:28   #12
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At least in the case of Entro it defentily doesn't make the game easier. The levels get reset once you recall, so dungeon stashing isn't an option.

There is usually not much reason why you would want to return to an already cleared level, while on the other hand it effectivly removes stairscumming.
It does deal with stair-scumming to some extent, yes. So does delayed level feeling, not setting autoscummer and not having connected stairs.

I think it *does* make band easier (I haven't played entro, mind - I'm in no way claiming that the variant is easy overall) but if you can use stairs to take a break from fighting, without losing vaults/uniques; if you can stash stuff on a higher floor away from pickup monsters and breathers; if it means that part of your escape route has already been mapped and cleared when your recall scrolls get flamed, then you have advantages not normally available to you.
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Old August 17, 2007, 02:57   #13
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The escape route might be mapped out, but it certainly isn't cleared. In the best case there will just be newly regenerated monsters. But in the much more common case those monsters will be added to the tough ones you left alive.

If you want to run away using stairs it is just as bad as disconnected stairs. If the next level is impossible as well, there is no going back.

So yeah it has moments where it helps (especially the first dive where you don't need to worry about recall), and those where you'll curse it. From my playing experience the second ones are far more common.. But then again I even often forget stashed stuff if I hide it on the current level, let alone one level above..

Oh and while vaults and uniques remain, quests don't. Leaving the level means losing the quest.
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Old August 17, 2007, 09:24   #14
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The escape route might be mapped out, but it certainly isn't cleared. In the best case there will just be newly regenerated monsters. But in the much more common case those monsters will be added to the tough ones you left alive.
If I killed all the monsters, I have an escape route. If I fled the floor, I'll take a different set of stairs up.

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If you want to run away using stairs it is just as bad as disconnected stairs. If the next level is impossible as well, there is no going back.
This I'll concede - if you flee a floor, and run straight into trouble, you can't just re-roll the map. Sort of rock/hard place. I guess I overlooked this as I don't use this style of play anyway, at least not via planning.

In all, yes, some things easier, some harder. The way I play, persistent floors would give me an advantage. For one thing I could level or look for more sources of ID before I cracked a vault or had to choose which items to retain from it. Reading your points, I think this feature does deal quite well with some of the abusablities of stairs in V.
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Old August 17, 2007, 10:52   #15
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Mars, that sound exactly like my game

Sad thing, this project seems to be abbandoned?!?
Last activities 2004 and 2005 ...
:-(

How about adding such an mode - optionally, of course - to Vanilla?
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Old August 17, 2007, 11:12   #16
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How about adding such an mode - optionally, of course - to Vanilla?
I've heard it will find its way into UnAngband. But I'd like it in any other variant as well, because half of my best chars end their lives by quitting after a trap door or Nexus hound on a quest level/special level/vault. I also always play with connected stairs off, because I'm tempted to stair-scum too much and I hate stair-scumming. An ability to look for ID or a shovel when a nice vault appears (too) early in the game would be nice, too.
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Old August 17, 2007, 11:43   #17
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OK, like the following things:

A Tolkin- or generel Fantasy-topic
Semi-Random Levels like in Heng/Entroband
An improved user-interface with colors and optionally tiles
A flowless compile environment
A variant that is actively maintained and not already abbandoned


Any idea or hint which variant could be MY thing?
Are their pages comparing variants?
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Old August 17, 2007, 12:24   #18
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Originally Posted by TJA View Post
OK, like the following things:

A Tolkin- or generel Fantasy-topic
Semi-Random Levels like in Heng/Entroband
An improved user-interface with colors and optionally tiles
A flowless compile environment
A variant that is actively maintained and not already abbandoned


Any idea or hint which variant could be MY thing?
Are their pages comparing variants?
You mean like this page?

As Bandobras mentioned, I'll be adding the Entroband semi-persistent levels to Unangband at some point soon.

However, Entroband is the only *band that has them at the moment.

Andrew
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Old August 17, 2007, 13:31   #19
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You mean like this page?

Not realy - more an overview about new things, changed things and such compared to each other ...
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Old August 17, 2007, 14:10   #20
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Not realy - more an overview about new things, changed things and such compared to each other ...
You'd need to read the changes.txt that comes with each variant. Unangband's is here for instance. Only counting changes between 0.5.2a and 0.6.2 that comes to 10 kb.

So what people tend to do instead is ask for a recommended variant (like you've done). Entroband comes the closest to what you want at this stage...

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