Feature request: make "summon unique" do nothing when there are no uniques

bron · December 18, 2009, 22:04

Right now, if a monster (say, Morgoth) use the "Summon Unique" ability, but there are no uniques, instead a bunch of High Undead get summoned in their place. If I go through the trouble of killing all the other uniques, I find it annoying that my reward is often a facefull of Nightwalkers and Black Reavers, which certainly doesn't feel like much of a prize. In fact, I find that it is a good tactic to deliberately *not* kill selected uniques, precisely so that there is something to be summoned; something of one's own choosing (i.e. weak). This all seems wrong to me: killing a unique should be an unqualified positive thing.

To that end, I propose that "summon unique" should fail and do nothing when there are no uniques available. Further, Morgoth should use something like "summon HIGH unique" so that weak uniques are not summoned and I'm not rewarded for failing to kill the Queen Ant or the Cat Lord (my two favorite targets to NOT kill).

Derakon · December 18, 2009, 22:33

Are you saying you'd rather have Charcaroth show up instead of a Black Reaver? It seems to me you're still getting a weaker summon than you would if you hadn't killed all of the local uniques. From Morgpoth's perspective, he's summoning something powerful to kill you with. If he can't get his best buddies to take you down, he'll get the next best thing.

I do agree that summons should avoid pulling monsters that are much weaker than the summoner. I don't know if the Cat Lord is too weak for Morgy to summon, but the Queen Ant probably is.

tummychow · December 19, 2009, 00:46

I still frankly agree with bron; it should either do nothing or summon a majorly useless monster (ie half the level of a randomly chosen dead unique).

buzzkill · December 19, 2009, 02:25

If there are no uniques, then it shouldn't waste his turn. He should get a chance to do something else. That's just weak AI, kinda like fully healed monsters healing themselves.

will_asher · December 19, 2009, 02:55

I just got a dangerous idea.. If uniques of rarity 0 can be summoned by the summon uniques spell (can't happen in vanilla 3.0.9 / current DJA, but that can be changed), then you can make several uniques which will never appear unless summoned by that spell.

Nick · December 19, 2009, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by will_asher

I just got a dangerous idea.. If uniques of rarity 0 can be summoned by the summon uniques spell (can't happen in vanilla 3.0.9 / current DJA, but that can be changed), then you can make several uniques which will never appear unless summoned by that spell.

I assume you're familiar with the abbreviation EMFH?

will_asher · December 19, 2009, 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

I assume you're familiar with the abbreviation EMFH?

Yes (actually I just looked it up), but I fail to see how it's relevant.

PowerDiver · December 19, 2009, 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

I assume you're familiar with the abbreviation EMFH?

Edacious Monsters Favor Hobbitses ?

Magnate · December 19, 2009, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerDiver

Edacious Monsters Favor Hobbitses ?

Evil Maintainer From Hell. Leon, Nick, Will ... all those sadistic guys.

Timo Pietilä · December 22, 2009, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

I assume you're familiar with the abbreviation EMFH?

Educated Monsters Fear Hobbitses?

December 18, 2009, 22:04	#1
bron Adept Join Date: May 2008 Location: Saratoga, California (in the midst of Silicon Valley) Posts: 126	Feature request: make "summon unique" do nothing when there are no uniques Right now, if a monster (say, Morgoth) use the "Summon Unique" ability, but there are no uniques, instead a bunch of High Undead get summoned in their place. If I go through the trouble of killing all the other uniques, I find it annoying that my reward is often a facefull of Nightwalkers and Black Reavers, which certainly doesn't feel like much of a prize. In fact, I find that it is a good tactic to deliberately not kill selected uniques, precisely so that there is something to be summoned; something of one's own choosing (i.e. weak). This all seems wrong to me: killing a unique should be an unqualified positive thing. To that end, I propose that "summon unique" should fail and do nothing when there are no uniques available. Further, Morgoth should use something like "summon HIGH unique" so that weak uniques are not summoned and I'm not rewarded for failing to kill the Queen Ant or the Cat Lord (my two favorite targets to NOT kill).

December 19, 2009, 02:25	#4
buzzkill Veteran Join Date: May 2008 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,253 Donated: $8	If there are no uniques, then it shouldn't waste his turn. He should get a chance to do something else. That's just weak AI, kinda like fully healed monsters healing themselves. __________________ www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your graphics here. (latest update DaJ 07/25/2010). My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder. "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents..." -James Madison

December 19, 2009, 02:55	#5
will_asher Knight Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 634 Donated: $10	I just got a dangerous idea.. If uniques of rarity 0 can be summoned by the summon uniques spell (can't happen in vanilla 3.0.9 / current DJA, but that can be changed), then you can make several uniques which will never appear unless summoned by that spell. __________________ Will_Asher Play DaJAngband: http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home

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December 18, 2009, 22:33	#2
Derakon Knight Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 889	Are you saying you'd rather have Charcaroth show up instead of a Black Reaver? It seems to me you're still getting a weaker summon than you would if you hadn't killed all of the local uniques. From Morgpoth's perspective, he's summoning something powerful to kill you with. If he can't get his best buddies to take you down, he'll get the next best thing. I do agree that summons should avoid pulling monsters that are much weaker than the summoner. I don't know if the Cat Lord is too weak for Morgy to summon, but the Queen Ant probably is.

December 19, 2009, 00:46	#3
tummychow Apprentice Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	I still frankly agree with bron; it should either do nothing or summon a majorly useless monster (ie half the level of a randomly chosen dead unique).

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