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Old July 27, 2010, 19:26   #1
PowerDiver
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reduce slot size

Timo made a suggestion that the quiver size should be reduced a lot, and I remember seeing something similar before. I think that if you can carry 99 arrows in a slot, when you try to put them into the quiver they should fit and the quiver should take only 1 slot.

HOWEVER, there is no need for 99 arrows to fit in a single slot. I suggest that we reduce all slots to be able to hold at most 50 items. You could drop that number to 40, but 50 seems rounder somehow, and I am pretty sure 30 is too low.

The first downside is that my warriors will carry only 50 ?phase to face M. I can cope with that. The second is that the general store will only sell 50 arrows per visit, and I am sure that will result in me applying a buyout button patch every time I download a nightly. I can only speak for myself, but these seem like small issues, and may not even apply to most players.
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Old July 27, 2010, 19:37   #2
Derakon
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My suggestion was to limit slots in the quiver to only holding 30 units of ammo each. That would allow the quiver to fulfill its original function -- not penalizing the use of small stacks of ammo -- without grossly inflating the character's carrying capacity. 30 was my suggestion of slot size because that seems to be about the average size of a stack of ammo found in-game.

I suppose that adding this without limiting the stacks of non-quiver items and without forcing carried ammo to the quiver would mean that there'd be an incentive to carry larger stacks in normal inventory, which seems weird. If we're going to go with limiting the size of all stacks, quiver and non-quiver, then the limit should probably be higher than 30. 40 or 50 would work.
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Old July 27, 2010, 20:21   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
My suggestion was to limit slots in the quiver to only holding 30 units of ammo each. That would allow the quiver to fulfill its original function -- not penalizing the use of small stacks of ammo -- without grossly inflating the character's carrying capacity. 30 was my suggestion of slot size because that seems to be about the average size of a stack of ammo found in-game.

I suppose that adding this without limiting the stacks of non-quiver items and without forcing carried ammo to the quiver would mean that there'd be an incentive to carry larger stacks in normal inventory, which seems weird. If we're going to go with limiting the size of all stacks, quiver and non-quiver, then the limit should probably be higher than 30. 40 or 50 would work.
I'd prefer your original suggestion over Eddie's: ten lots of 30 ammo is four inv slots, which goes down to three after you lose three missiles. That's still plenty of use for the quiver, and doesn't mess with any other stacks. If you want to carry another 99 arrows in your inventory, that's up to you.
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Old July 27, 2010, 20:39   #4
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I'd prefer your original suggestion over Eddie's
I prefer Eddie's suggestion...
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Old July 27, 2010, 20:43   #5
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Having different max slot sizes in the quiver versus the pack would probably introduce some annoying edge cases; I don't love that.

I would be fine with reducing the number of quiver slots from 10 down to some lower number, e.g. 5-7.

Reducing the max slots would screw up everyone's savefiles. I don't think that's worth doing to "fix" a new feature that is pretty controversial anyway.
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Old July 27, 2010, 20:48   #6
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Having different max slot sizes in the quiver versus the pack would probably introduce some annoying edge cases; I don't love that.

I would be fine with reducing the number of quiver slots from 10 down to some lower number, e.g. 5-7.

Reducing the max slots would screw up everyone's savefiles. I don't think that's worth doing to "fix" a new feature that is pretty controversial anyway.
Hmmm. The point of the quiver is to combine ten different types of ammo, so if you don't like the edge cases I would rather use Eddie's fix than reduce the number of quiver slots.
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Old July 27, 2010, 20:59   #7
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It makes easy to carry tons of different ego ammunition when you find it--rather than devoting a full slot to carting around 8 arrows of slay evil you just throw them in the quiver and don't worry about it. The number 10 was just what S and NPP were using which is why I used it (the ticket Takkaria opened mentioned taking the quiver from those variants).

Changing quiver slot sizes (or all slot sizes) helps fix the problem by reducing the "compression effect" you get with the quiver. Given that the pack can still hold ammunition (albeit without compression) I think you would get a similar reduction by giving the quiver fewer slots--you could still carry 10 types but only 5 of them would compress.

If you could give a practical example of when the one would work drastically differently than the other that would help me understand. From my point of view they are quite similar, and this just seems like the easiest to understand/implement.
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Old July 27, 2010, 21:08   #8
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One of the reasons for my suggestion instead of the others is that it allows for mindless autowielding into the quiver. I think the whole idea of shifting items back and forth from the pack to the quiver with a wield command to be bad design, and going further to make things act differently based on which 5 out of 7 stacks of ammo go in just seems wretched.
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Old July 27, 2010, 21:13   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
One of the reasons for my suggestion instead of the others is that it allows for mindless autowielding into the quiver. I think the whole idea of shifting items back and forth from the pack to the quiver with a wield command to be bad design, and going further to make things act differently based on which 5 out of 7 stacks of ammo go in just seems wretched.
Yeah, I kind of expected you might feel that way--I tried to write that patch to handle the quiver more like you wanted, but it didn't seem to catch on

Would your quiver still have a cap on how many types of ammo it could hold? If not I feel like that will end up being a nightmare to code correctly (and would probably still be buggy/confusing for the user). If so, then we're just arguing about what the constant should be.
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Old July 27, 2010, 21:13   #10
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Say you have 10 stacks of 29 arrows:

Using the method of lowering the max per slot to 30 you can get all those arrows in your quiver and take three slots of inventory.

Using the method of lowering quiver slots to 5 you can store half the arrows in your quiver and the rest in inventory, taking a total of 7 slots of inventory. even using 7 quiver slots this would still be 6 slots of inventory

This gives 3-4 slots difference in amount of space taken by same items. This seems fairly significant to me.
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