Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutDownloadVariantsLadderForumCompetitionSpoilersComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 6, 2010, 11:59   #1
Vogrim
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Vogrim is on a distinguished road
Ridiculous death due, in my opinion, to flawed design.

I just lost my level 39 Dunadan paladin to the Lernaean Hydra after getting hit by a roughly 800 damage breath attack, which is almost 200 hp over my maximum life total. Is making a situation like this possible conducive to quality, enjoyable gameplay?
Vogrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 12:06   #2
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,003
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate Send a message via Skype™ to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
I just lost my level 39 Dunadan paladin to the Lernaean Hydra after getting hit by a roughly 800 damage breath attack, which is almost 200 hp over my maximum life total. Is making a situation like this possible conducive to quality, enjoyable gameplay?
Well someone might as well have a go.

IMO it depends on the extent to which you like knowing all the mechanics of games you play, as compared with finding stuff out as you go. In a game with permadeath, some people argue for the former - i.e. all the edit file contents known to the player from the start. The game is actually designed from the other viewpoint, though there is an option which gives you full monster knowledge.

You got killed by an unresisted poison breath (I assume). If you'd had resist poison, you'd have survived. Next time you'll know that to face the Learnean Hydra you'll need resist poison or over 800hp. If you don't like discovering this sort of stuff by dying, turn on the full monster memory option.

HTH.

(EDIT: There is also a "cheat_death" option, removing the permadeath from the game. You might prefer to turn that on for a while.)

Last edited by Magnate; November 6, 2010 at 13:37.
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 12:32   #3
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 3,471
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
I just lost my level 39 Dunadan paladin to the Lernaean Hydra after getting hit by a roughly 800 damage breath attack, which is almost 200 hp over my maximum life total. Is making a situation like this possible conducive to quality, enjoyable gameplay?
Those kind of deaths are called "Yet Another Stupid Death". YASD in short. "stupid" doesn't mean game here, it means that you, the player, did something you should not have done. Before you think I claim you stupid, that's the only type of death in this game and we all have experienced it. for example I have lost a +30+ speed nearly 1000 point damage / turn, 1000 point HP, almost every resist covered char to Dracolisk once (forgot to wear FA item).

In your case that was fighting a (unknown) monster without resists to handle it. Either mistake was the "unknown" part, or the "missing resist" part. Missing resist poison perhaps? By the time you meed Lernaean Hydra you should have already learned about danger of not having poison resist. You had seen AMHD:s, right? If you had not have fire resist and got hit by that it would have made over twice the damage you had HP.

To answer to your question, yes, it increases the enjoyment of the playing knowing that you can die. This is a tough game, not something that 5-year old kid can play through in a hour and then forget. Winning is actual achievement, though much easier now than it used to be.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:02   #4
Vogrim
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Vogrim is on a distinguished road
Perhaps you're the stupid one for thinking it makes sense to have instant kill abilities in a game where death is permanent.

I don't understand the point of putting so much emphasis on being either resistant to EVERYTHING or getting screwed over.
Vogrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:07   #5
flechette
Scout
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 37
flechette is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
Perhaps you're the stupid one for thinking it makes sense to have instant kill abilities in a game where death is permanent.

I don't understand the point of putting so much emphasis on being either resistant to EVERYTHING or getting screwed over.
Wow... you aren't here to make friends, are you?

Protip: You don't have to kill everything you see the second you see it, or even at all ever. There have been plenty of times where I've left goodies on the ground because of monsters that I couldn't handle at the time.
flechette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:20   #6
Vogrim
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Vogrim is on a distinguished road
Yeah, silly me for prancing about oblivious to the fact that I'd be one-shot 20+ hours into my game for not wearing every single resistance. Guess I should've been on my toes. What a fun learning experience!

Say, can you recommend any old Nintendo games where I can jump off a platform and fall into a pit without ever actually seeing the pit until I'm flying face-first into it? It's such a great system that I can't get enough!
Vogrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:21   #7
Nick
FAangband maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 4,389
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
Yeah, silly me for prancing about oblivious to the fact that I'd be one-shot 20+ hours into my game for not wearing every single resistance. Guess I should've been on my toes. What a fun learning experience!
Now you're getting the idea
__________________
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:35   #8
andrewdoull
Unangband maintainer
 
andrewdoull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 39
Posts: 871
andrewdoull is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Now you're getting the idea
You're just saying that because in O's opinion he should have instead been blinded, confused and bleeding to death...

Andrew
__________________
The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
In UnAngband, the level dives you.
ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com
andrewdoull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 13:38   #9
Adley
Adept
 
Adley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Unangband, Morgoth's throne
Posts: 185
Adley is on a distinguished road
You don't have to resist EVERYthing. Actually, apart from being breathed on by Tarasque, you only Need Pois & Base 4 . The rest are only to counter side effects. Chaos breathing monster are not too common.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Sadly, every character ever created in Angband was given a magnifying glass by their eccentric uncle for their fifth birthday...
Adley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6, 2010, 14:57   #10
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 2,630
fizzix is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
Yeah, silly me for prancing about oblivious to the fact that I'd be one-shot 20+ hours into my game for not wearing every single resistance. Guess I should've been on my toes. What a fun learning experience!
It seems that you don't like the way Angband is structured. However, as Magnate says, there are several options for you. One is to turn on full monster memory. Then you will see how much damage and what type every monster will do. The second option is to turn on cheat death, and then death puts you back at the start of the level.

I too did not like learning by losing a powerful character to an instant death. My first 2-3 wins were with cheat death (actually save scumming). I wasn't convinced to try playing without the backups until I won a game without ever using my scummed save files.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions regarding vanilla dungeon design Cazliostro Vanilla 23 October 11, 2010 13:05
Amazing character but still YASD due to NAsTY monster Thraalbeast AAR 12 September 11, 2010 10:13
Not so stupid death, but death nonetheless bron AAR 10 April 15, 2010 00:23
death, followed by...? fyonn Vanilla 3 March 7, 2010 01:56
28 tickets due by May 31. PaulBlay Development 0 May 5, 2009 22:26


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.