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Old November 6, 2010, 13:57   #11
fph
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When starting your next character, press "=", then select "cheat options", "allow player to avoid death". It is a good option for learning how to play this game.
However, see, everyone here agrees that part of the fun in Angband is in being careful to avoid death. It's part of the challenge. If you do not need to be skilled and careful, then the game reduces to "click here to reach level 2", "click here to reach level 3" and so on. And we all play Angband for the challenge.

Other remark: Most of the times, 'being careful' does not mean 'having all possible resistances covered', but 'identify immediately situations that can kill you, and avoid them'.
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Old November 6, 2010, 14:35   #12
Adley
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Once you'll have looked at the Bad Advice thread, you'd probably have a very good idea of what NOT to do .
It's true that Angband has a very Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep learning curve compared to Nethack/Adom though.
Always be ready to escape. Escape means life, and if you are dead you can't beat morgoth
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Sadly, every character ever created in Angband was given a magnifying glass by their eccentric uncle for their fifth birthday...
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Old November 6, 2010, 15:33   #13
Derakon
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I'm sorry you lost your character. Unfortunately, experiences like yours happen to everyone at least once. Now that you've lost a character you've sunk a lot of time into, I have a few recommendations for your next time (assuming you want to play Angband again; given the rather hostile response you've gotten here I wouldn't blame you if you left):

First, turn on the cheat option to know full monster info. Frankly there's no good reason to not know what monsters can do, so it's either turn on the cheat, or look up the spoilers every time you encounter a new monster. If it really bugs you to use a cheat option, get a Rod of Probing and zap it every time you see a new monster; it will fill out the important parts of your monster memory for you.

Second, pay attention to the following important abilities:
* Free Action starts becoming important around 1000'. Without it, monsters can paralyze you, and at that point they can do enough damage/round that paralysis usually means death.
* The basic 4 resistances (fire, cold, acid, electricity) are very important. The damage cap on these is 1600HP (a monster breathing an element does 1/3rd his current HP in damage), which means that even with resists (which cut damage to 1/3rd), you can take up to 533 damage in one shot from one of these elements. That's a lot. Though, if you combine a temporary resistance and a permanent resistance (e.g. armor that gives resist fire, and a Potion of Resist Fire), then you cut damage to 1/9th.
* Poison resistance is also important for a few situations, as you have recently learned. The cap on poison damage is 800HP, and the Lernean Hydra has 4500HP, which is more than enough to hit that cap. Poison resistance will cut that down to a much more manageable 266HP.
* See Invisible is naturally important to see the increasing proportion of hidden monsters as the game goes on.
* Telepathy is more important than you might realize. There's a lot of value in continuous updates on the positions of monsters in the dungeon.


Other resistances are usually not so important for the damage dealt by the attack -- either the element has a low cap (e.g. light/dark at 400HP -- painful but manageable) or the resistance doesn't cut the damage by that much. However, the resistance will still prevent nasty side effects, which makes blindness and confusion resistance important nonetheless.

Third, don't get too attached to your characters. Characters will die, even if you do know what you're up against. Hell, I lost a character a few days back to an unlucky combination of moves (Uriel breathed fire twice in a row, between which I failed a 90% chance to use my wand of Teleport Other). My reaction was more of a "Aw, man, that really shouldn't have happened" -- but it did, and my character died, rest in peace. My new dwarven mage will remember his half-troll ancestor (???) fondly.

This is getting pretty long. I hope it's useful. Good luck with your next character!
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Old November 6, 2010, 15:37   #14
Therem Harth
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To be honest, I pretty much always save-scum. The super-careful play style doesn't appeal to me; I prefer not to have to start over again, because starting over is tedious and the early game in most variants is tedious, and you never know when character death and the ensuing tedium will rear their head.

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When starting your next character, press "=", then select "cheat options", "allow player to avoid death". It is a good option for learning how to play this game.
Not really, because it removes you from the potentially lethal situation if you die. Which is why I lobby for a "No Permadeath" option, i.e. mark the player a cheater and don't save the game on death. That way you can at least go back and try a different tactic.
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Old November 6, 2010, 16:33   #15
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Vogrim View Post
Perhaps you're the stupid one for thinking it makes sense to have instant kill abilities in a game where death is permanent.

I don't understand the point of putting so much emphasis on being either resistant to EVERYTHING or getting screwed over.
You don't need resist to everything. You just need to know what to fight and when to fight. Sounds like this stupid death was not after all stupid mistake, but stupid decision.

With that attitude roguelikes are not your games. Move on, and play something else.
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Old November 6, 2010, 16:45   #16
Timo Pietilš
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Yeah, silly me for prancing about oblivious to the fact that I'd be one-shot 20+ hours into my game for not wearing every single resistance.
You don't need every resist. 20+ hours is a long time for warrior to get to that point where you died. I suggest you try a lot faster games. Suicide games with expectation of getting killed, but with trying to stay alive. Do not pay attention to deaths, other than what killed you and how. Then try to figure out what you could have done differently to avoid that death. Make mental notes. Learn this game.

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Guess I should've been on my toes. What a fun learning experience!
That's exactly what you need to be in angband. No matter how slow you play or how strong you get your char it will die unless you are on your toes. Lernaean Hydra is an easy opponent, dungeon has much worse things to offer. Getting killed is actually pretty hooking once you get into this game. Not being able to die just makes it boring.
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Old November 6, 2010, 17:07   #17
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therem Harth View Post
To be honest, I pretty much always save-scum. The super-careful play style doesn't appeal to me; I prefer not to have to start over again, because starting over is tedious and the early game in most variants is tedious, and you never know when character death and the ensuing tedium will rear their head.
Just to offer a different view: I find the first half of the game much more interesting than the second. (Which is lucky, because I spend 90% of my time there.)

By the time my new character finds his/her first ego item, I've forgotten the pain of the previous death.
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Old November 6, 2010, 22:36   #18
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I hate the thought of doing it, but I'd appreciate if someone told me how to use wizard mode to resurrect my character. I've been having fun with the game up until this point and it seems silly to stop simply because of this death. This is actually the second fairly high level character I've lost, but that death (to gravity hounds) was at least justified, as I COULD'VE probably done something to save myself had I been paying more attention.

Derakon, I understand your stance on the monster info, but I disagree. Barring insta-kill attacks, I prefer to naturally learn what the monsters do, either by probing or getting slapped in the face. Not knowing exactly how everything works is part of the fun. The funny part is that my character is heavily decked out in great gear. I think poison resistance is the only thing he's lacking.

Timo, I realize you like this game, but you need to wake up to your fanboyism; your stance on this matter is painfully devoid of thought. To lose a 2.2 million experience character for no reason other than ignorance of baffling game mechanics is ridiculous. It's not like I died because I made a series of mistakes (you know, the skill you were mentioning earlier?). I died because I had absolutely no reason to think that something would simply stroll up and obliterate me in a single shot. The only way I could have avoided this was to research the game ahead of time, and if you think that's a sign of a well-built game, I suggest you don't attempt to operate heavy machinery.
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Old November 6, 2010, 23:03   #19
Derakon
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Sadly, most roguelikes are simply not really "discoverable" (i.e. friendly to people who aren't familiar with their mechanics already). If you think Angband is difficult to deal with without spoilers, you should try Nethack sometime. At least with Angband, your only major issues are learning which monsters can hit you for lots of damage, and you can discover the more dangerous attacks with probing. Nethack in contrast has a million little tricks that you simply won't stumble across without referring to spoilers. For example, inscribing "Elbereth" in the floor creates a barrier that stops most monsters from passing or attacking; dipping longswords in fountains can get you Excalibur; eating royal jelly increases your strength...

Basically, you should expect that if you don't refer to spoilers, then you are going to experience some "unavoidable" deaths. This is unfortunate, but it's the price you pay to have a game that continues to entertain even very experienced players, which was developed by people who are not themselves professional game developers, in their spare time.

As for resurrecting your character, so far as I'm aware once a character is dead, it's dead. You have to have wizard mode / cheat-death enabled at the time of death to preserve the character. Alternately you can force the program to close when you see the "You die" message (but before the tombstone shows up) to prevent the death from being written to the savefile.
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Old November 6, 2010, 23:20   #20
Fendell Orcbane
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To the original poster

I think that you need to be careful with how you address people over here. I think that you are pretty rude and are very lucky that people are willing to deal with you at all. I doubt that you would be this rude in real life, so why act rude in a forum?
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