Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 2, 2011, 03:19   #1
CunningGabe
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 250
CunningGabe is on a distinguished road
Monster susceptibilities and immunities

I'm working on reviewing which monsters are susceptible or resistant to various elements and status effects, and I'd like some feedback. First of all, we have these newish HURT_FIRE and HURT_COLD flags -- monsters that take double damage from spells of the appropriate type (and that will probably eventually take extra damage from brands.) These flags aren't currently on any monsters. Which types of monsters do you think should have these?

More generally, are there any monsters that you think should have a different set of resistances etc compared to what they have now?
CunningGabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 03:37   #2
Hariolor
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 289
Hariolor is on a distinguished road
hurt_fire seems good for:

jellies, molds, mushrooms
corporeal undead
ice-creatures (dragons, demons, trolls, vortices, zephyr hounds, etc)


hurt_cold?:

fire creatures (same idea as above)
reptiles (R)?
icky things
Q's (except undead Q's)
worms
Hariolor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 03:42   #3
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
HURT_FIRE for nazgul is supported by the source material.

HURT_XXX for the opposite elementals is obvious. Possibly both for water elementals.

Maybe one, the other, or even both for some jellies and related creatures as boiling and freezing would be nearly as dangerous to thin skinned sacks of unpotable water as to purer animate water.

Whatever you do you'll create balance issues. There's a reason the flags weren't in vanilla all along.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 06:01   #4
Therem Harth
Knight
 
Therem Harth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New England winter
Posts: 923
Therem Harth is on a distinguished road
If Nazgul are hurt by fire, they should certainly have nastier traits to make up for it...

One idea: melee retaliation. Every successful melee hit against Nazgul has a chance of stunning the player, perhaps with an additional chance of bypassing sound resistance. Also, have a chance of shattering non-artifact weapons. Hammering away at Uvatha or whoever therefore becomes a good way to get KO'd and dead.
Therem Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 07:15   #5
Philip
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague,Czech Republic
Posts: 894
Philip is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therem Harth View Post
If Nazgul are hurt by fire, they should certainly have nastier traits to make up for it...

One idea: melee retaliation. Every successful melee hit against Nazgul has a chance of stunning the player, perhaps with an additional chance of bypassing sound resistance. Also, have a chance of shattering non-artifact weapons. Hammering away at Uvatha or whoever therefore becomes a good way to get KO'd and dead.
And since fire SPELLS do double damage, and melee is done by warriors only, mages suddenly become awesome and warriors become useless, since mages get both frost and fire bolt. If we add melee retaliation then we'll add it to other monsters maybe without shattering.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 07:26   #6
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,941
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Yeah, melee retaliation was done in ToME similarly to how you're describing, and it basically means that if you're fighting Nazgul you only use ranged attacks. About the extent to which I'd say that melee retaliation can work without being broken is the elemental auras in ZAngband, where you took something like 2d6 damage before resistances, per strike you made against an aura'd target. An extra bit of attrition, not a big middle finger flip.

That said, adding susceptibilities could really weaken the monsters that have them. Look how much more trivial Sauron is if you exploit his acid vulnerability; with appropriate gear the fight takes maybe half as long as it would otherwise.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 07:44   #7
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
It wouldn't be so bad if the attack rods weren't jokes. It would level things a lot (as far as this change applies) if rods of fire/frost bolts/balls did worthwhile damage.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 09:40   #8
Philip
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague,Czech Republic
Posts: 894
Philip is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atarlost View Post
It wouldn't be so bad if the attack rods weren't jokes. It would level things a lot (as far as this change applies) if rods of fire/frost bolts/balls did worthwhile damage.
O has the attack rods as viable options somehow, maybe we should steal the idea whatever it is.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 09:57   #9
Storch
Scout
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 47
Storch is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
O has the attack rods as viable options somehow, maybe we should steal the idea whatever it is.
I like this in FAA (which is derived from O). Archery is weaker and devices stronger than in V.

The reasons for device effectivness are several: some devices have unresistable (or rarely resisted) effect, some have usefull status effects like stunning and, last but not least, monsters have fewer hitpoints - M has only 10k compared to 20k in V.
Storch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2011, 11:09   #10
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hariolor View Post
hurt_fire seems good for:

jellies, molds, mushrooms
corporeal undead
ice-creatures (dragons, demons, trolls, vortices, zephyr hounds, etc)


hurt_cold?:

fire creatures (same idea as above)
reptiles (R)?
icky things
Q's (except undead Q's)
worms
Not sure about jellies. Anything having high water content without easily hurt surface should be hurt by cold easier than fire.

Like Atarlost says ringwraiths should be vulnerable to fire, but not necessary susceptible to it. Just lack of resist fire is sufficient.

Acid? Electricity? Maybe easier to think what isn't vulnerable than what is. Electricity could be something to hurt incorporeal undeads...maybe. Resisting it would be monsters without anything resembling nervous system like golems, jellies etc.

Incorporeal monsters would automatically be resistant to acid (nothing to corrode), vortices, adamantium and mithril beings, some golems maybe, acidic monsters like movable jellies.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New monster? the Invisible Stalker Development 11 January 27, 2011 02:07
Randart immunities TJS Vanilla 4 June 25, 2010 19:06
Least Favorite Monster ehertlein Vanilla 51 May 23, 2009 21:29
Monster Recall miner Vanilla 7 May 15, 2009 02:35
Monster AI Malak Darkhunter Vanilla 3 December 9, 2007 08:05


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.