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Old May 20, 2011, 11:14   #1
Raxmei
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ID by use shenanigans

I recently found out that I can learn the bonus on amulets by throwing them. That's obviously not something you'd want to do if it's of a type that you need. Before I switched to no selling I used id by use to partially identify certain items to inflate their sale price. Wear a ring of the mouse and then take it off right away so you never attack with it on. Now you get to sell it as a ring that gives a bonus to dex and stealth with no known penalties. Rings of reckless attacks can be thrown for damage or you can put them on momentarily to attack defenseless townspeople. It sells for more when you don't know the AC penalty.
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Old May 20, 2011, 16:41   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxmei View Post
I recently found out that I can learn the bonus on amulets by throwing them. That's obviously not something you'd want to do if it's of a type that you need. Before I switched to no selling I used id by use to partially identify certain items to inflate their sale price. Wear a ring of the mouse and then take it off right away so you never attack with it on. Now you get to sell it as a ring that gives a bonus to dex and stealth with no known penalties. Rings of reckless attacks can be thrown for damage or you can put them on momentarily to attack defenseless townspeople. It sells for more when you don't know the AC penalty.
Hmm. I don't think I knew about IDing amulets by throwing - that's certainly wrong. The one about partially IDd stuff is covered in ticket #1315 and will be fixed one day. Being able to throw things for damage is WAD, as is being able to put stuff on, use it to your advantage, and then take it off.
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Old May 20, 2011, 16:50   #3
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I don't think he means IDing them as in IDing say an Amulet of Resist Acid, just the hit and damage bonuses. Which makes sense if those bonuses are applied to the throwing attack.
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Old May 20, 2011, 18:33   #4
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I don't think he means IDing them as in IDing say an Amulet of Resist Acid, just the hit and damage bonuses. Which makes sense if those bonuses are applied to the throwing attack.
We should probably implement differentiation between on- and off- weapon and launcher bonuses...
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Old May 20, 2011, 18:47   #5
Derakon
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I have to admit I find it amusing that you can ID a bow's to-hit and to-dam bonuses by throwing it at something. Naturally you risk breaking it if you do this though.
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Old May 20, 2011, 21:39   #6
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Perhaps the target of your throw is more knowledgable about magical items and shouts back at you "how dare you throw an Amulet of Wisdom +4 at me!"
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Old May 20, 2011, 22:27   #7
Raxmei
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Originally Posted by EpicMan View Post
I don't think he means IDing them as in IDing say an Amulet of Resist Acid, just the hit and damage bonuses. Which makes sense if those bonuses are applied to the throwing attack.
I haven't attempted it with a resist amulet and wouldn't expect that to work, but it does work with stuff like stat amulets, searching, infra and the like. I few minutes ago I got it to work with a stat ring so it works on rings too. IIRC it doesn't reveal weapon pvals and I haven't tried it with armors. Revealing combat bonuses this way is of course no surprise at all. It's the finding out the bonus on your amulet of searching this way that's wierd. It isn't even necessary to throw it at someone. Simply throwing it at all will reveal the bonus.

The partial ID thing on rings of the mouse and reckless attacks makes sense from a mechanical perspective. It's just easily exploitable for profit in the early game. It might be noteworthy that the trick doesn't work with rings of the dog, whose penalties the player knows without having to try them. If it's considered worth changing then matching mouse and reckless attacks to how dog works would be one approach.

Last edited by Raxmei; May 20, 2011 at 23:08.
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Old May 25, 2011, 04:04   #8
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Another wrinkle in the throwing jewelry thing is that it reveals positive pvals but not negative ones. I just tried it unsuccessfully on an amulet of charisma and a ring of strength which turned out to be cursed.
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Old May 25, 2011, 11:58   #9
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Thanks for the reports. I've created ticket #1449 for this.
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Old May 27, 2011, 21:37   #10
PowerDiver
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Originally Posted by Raxmei View Post
I recently found out that I can learn the bonus on amulets by throwing them.
Currently there is a single value for damage bonus that is for all attacks. It is more effective to throw a ring of damage than to fire an unenchanted shot from an unenchanted sling, and it is usually even more effective to throw a shortbow of power. Presumably the damages of those attacks should be changed, but until they are the principle of id-by-use is that you can tell which attacks are more damaging. That means learning the plusses when you throw jewelry is correct, and also for throwing launchers, until such time when the rules on the damage for throwing items is changed.
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