The Angband Ladder: Elaith, Noldor Fingolfin no-class by HallucinationMushroom

  [Sil 1.0 Character Dump]

 Name   Elaith        Age    3,208       Str   6 =  3  +1      +2
 Sex    Male          Height   6'9       Dex   2
 Race   Noldor        Weight   165       Con   9 =  6  +2      +1
 House  Fingolfin                        Gra  -1 =  2      -2  -1

 Game Turn   28,645   Melee (+23,3d11)   Melee       23 = 20  +2      +1
 Exp Pool     5,459         (+14,3d12)   Archery      0 =  0  +2  -3  +1
 Total Exp   85,359   Bows    (+0,0d0)   Evasion     21 = 20  +2  -1
 Burden       130.5   Armor [+21,7-23]   Stealth      6 =  7  +2  -3
 Max Burden   298.4                      Perception  10 = 11  -1
 Depth         1000'  Health    -8:103   Will        10 =  9  -1  +1  +1
 Min Depth     1000'  Voice      16:16   Smithing     8 =  9  -1
 Light Radius     3                      Song        -1 =  0  -1

 Get it the identify spell, yo.

  [Last Messages]

> You burst into a furious rage!
> You have no more Thorny Herbs of Rage (a).
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
> (It is very hard to dodge or attack from within a pit.)
> You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness. <2x>
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness. <2x>
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You die.

  [Character Equipment]

a) The Bastard Sword 'Anguirel' (+3,3d3) [+1]
   It cuts easily through armour.  It increases your hunger.  It
   cannot be harmed by the elements.  It does extra damage when
   wielded with both hands.  
b) (nothing)
c) a Silver Ring of Damage <+1>
   It improves your damage sides by 1.  
d) a Silver Ring of Damage <+1>
   It improves your damage sides by 1.  
e) a Crystal Amulet of Constitution <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It sustains your 
f) a Feanorian Lamp of Brightness
   It burns brightly, increasing your light radius by an
   additional square.  
g) The Long Corslet of Maedhros (-2) [-3,2d7]
   It provides resistance to fire and poison.  It cannot be
   harmed by the elements.  
h) a Shadow Cloak of Stealth [+4] <+3>
   It improves your stealth by 3.  It creates an unnatural
i) The Battle Axe of Hurin (-3,3d6) <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It improves your will
   by 1.  It slays trolls.  It provides resistance to fear.  It
   cannot be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the ability: 
   Song of Slaying.  It does extra damage when wielded with both
j) a Dwarf Mask [-2,1d2]
   It provides resistance to fire.  
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Power (-1) [+0,1d1] <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  
l) a Pair of Steel Greaves of Free Action [-1,1d1]
   It grants you freedom of movement.  
m) (nothing)
n) (nothing)

  [Character Inventory]

a) 6 Dark Green Herbs of Terror
b) a Walnut Staff of Light (3 charges)
c) a Rosewood Staff of Recharging (1 charge)
d) 2 Amethyst Rings of Strength <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  It sustains your strength.  
e) a Moonstone Ring of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
f) a Bloodstone Ring of Frost
   It provides resistance to fire.  
g) a Beryl Ring of Warmth
   It provides resistance to cold.  
h) a Jade Ring of Venom's End
   It provides resistance to poison.  
i) a Silmaril
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
j) a Cloak of Warmth
   It provides resistance to cold.  
k) a Kite Shield of Deflection (-1) [+1,1d7]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
l) a Helm of Brilliance [-1,1d2]
   It lights the dungeon around you.  
m) a Set of Gauntlets of the Forge [+0,1d1] <+3>
   It improves your smithing by 3.  
n) The Greatsword 'Glend' (-1,3d6) [+1] <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  It sustains your strength.  
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It requires both hands
   to wield it properly.  
o) a Mattock of Belegost (-7,6d2) <+3>
   It improves your tunneling by 3.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  

Posted on 17.1.2012 02:34
Last updated on 18.1.2012 02:25

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2077. on the Sil Ladder (of 2150)


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On 17.1.2012 02:34 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Okay, I could use some advice if anybody is willing to help me out!
1. I just found a forge with 4 uses. Shouldn't I be able to take Enchantment, Artifice, Masterpiece, and then craft a ring of speed? With a grace potion, glove of forging +3, existing points and large experience pool? I've never taken masterpiece before, nor have I used a grace potion at the forge before, so I'm floating a couple of assumptions.
2. I keep getting afraid, and none of my other characters ever got scared. Do I need to bump my will? Perhaps I'm missing a key ability that I'm overlooking. My axe grants rfear, but I prefer Anguirel.
3. Would you be using Anguirel? The only thing I saw in the manual about sharpness is that it is based on song. Would pumping up my song help Anguirel get more damage, or do items 'of sharpness' (which I'm assuming Anguirel is) work differently?

In any case, I'm going to re-read how Luthien and Beren nabbed the silmaril tonight or tomorrow, and mull over my last set of of moves a bit, and ponder, and mull...

On 17.1.2012 02:40 HugoTheGreat2011 wrote:
Wow, what an awesome character you have there. As far as real advice goes, I'll leave it to half and Scatha, or the other Sil pros....

On 17.1.2012 02:44 HugoTheGreat2011 wrote:
By the way, what abilities does this character. I noticed that the 'Abilities' section is not shown at the bottom of your character page...

On 17.1.2012 03:36 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
That's weird, my other characters had that just fine. Let me see if I can figure out what's going on.

On 17.1.2012 03:55 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Hmm, I don't know why my notes aren't working. I know nothing of computers, but maybe it's because I play Sil in a thumb drive that I tote around and play on my home computer and work computer? That seems odd though, because my other characters did the exact same thing.

Power - Stun - Strength
Blocking - Heavy Armor - Dexterity
Disguise - Exchange Places
Keen Senses - Lore Keeper - Lore Master
Mind over Body - Inner Light - Clarity

I realize now that most of my characters had a dwarf mask, which grants rfire and rfear. That's probably why I never got scared.

On 17.1.2012 05:27 HugoTheGreat2011 wrote:
Hmm...I'm surprised that you didn't go for Sprinting as one of your abilities. ;)

On 17.1.2012 08:24 Satyr wrote:
Nice going! Some comments:

1. I don't think a single potion of grace is that usefull at a forge, it most likely will run out before you finished forging and then have to abandon the project. BTW I don't know if a ring of speed actually adds speed or "only" gives the sprinting ability as boots of speed do. Then it might be cheaper to simply pick up sprinting as an ability.

3. As far as I know sharpness on weapons is a flat 50% armour reduction, great against armoured foes, so I'd definitly keep it. BTW the "cuts very easily" on Angrist means it ignores armour completly, I think, though it might do too little damage overall. Song is only relevant for Song of Sharpness armour reduction. If I calculated right you might just be able to afford song of sharpness (5500 exp to get song to 10, 1500 exp for song of aule and song of sharpness), that would cut down armour a further 50% with 12 Song. Though you might want to stop at song of Aule first and use some exp to do some forging.

Have fun in the Throne Room!

On 17.1.2012 12:24 Scatha wrote:
You have a great collection of Artefact weapons here! Satyr is right about how Sharpness works. I think the weapon choice is between Anguirel and the Axe of Hurin. The axe comes with +1 Con, and against all but the most heavily-armoured foes will do more damage with a regular hit, but there's a difference of +7 to hit between the two! I guess Anguirel probably has the edge (pun intended).

I think you want two or three potions of grace to get through an item at a forge. A ring of speed does genuinely increase your speed, though -- but player speed never goes above 3, so your potions of quickness wouldn't do anything at that point. That said, I think there are some good things you could do with this forge.

The Luthien method isn't the only one which works, but I don't want to say too much more than that.

On 17.1.2012 14:30 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
I think I might just sit here for a few weeks! Thanks for your helpful comments you guys. I've yet to re-read the necessary parts from the Silmarillion, so that needs to come first. Simpleton was worth his weight in gold simply for the Throne Room map I was able to get upon his death. If I don't find the optimal plan for nabbing a Silmaril, it wouldn't be a bad way to die to take on Morgy in hand-to-hand combat, though probably futile. It's tempting to forge a ring of increase damage sides +1 and +2 (with some curses and smithing points) and make Anguirel mighty mighty. It's fun just thinking of the ways I could dump those 7000 exp. I'm also considering repeating 950', if it's still available after my forging. I have a 2 use forge on the level as well, in case I want to forego the speed ring and make like, a dwarf mask and other things. I'll probably lose what good consumables I have if I do that though. I had a staff of foes and treasures for these last few levels that Gothmog or Lungorthin, (both dead), burned up, which made finding the good stuff, like Anguirel, a cinch.

On 17.1.2012 15:36 Scatha wrote:
The end game isn't meant to be a trick. I think you might benefit from asking us for slightly more spoilers about the way that works, but I'll leave that up to you.

Nice going killing Gothmog! He should only appear in a greater vault (which would be mentioned if your notes file was working), or in the throne room, although it's also possible to find him in a regular vault if you have an item of Danger.

This character looks pretty powerful to me.

On 17.1.2012 19:00 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Oops, I was wrong about the dwarf mask. I was just looking and noticed it has a fearsome visage, not rfear.

On 17.1.2012 22:19 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
First I was thinking about rapid attack. Now I'm pondering two-weaponing Anguirel with Hurin. Man, I'll never spend these points!

On 18.1.2012 00:44 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Alright, I have chosen two weapon fighting! My goal, which may be impossible, is to kill Morgoth.

On 18.1.2012 00:53 Satyr wrote:
Just fitting. After all, you are from the house of Fingolfin, so challenging Morgoth to single combat could be said to be something of a familly tradition.

On 18.1.2012 01:01 half wrote:
Oh no! I didn't mean you to read *that* part of the Silmarillion. Now you will get a Trumpet of Warning and announce your challenge...

Think about whether Fingolfin or Beren and Luthien did better at Thwarting Morgoth!

(Seriously though, best of luck with Morgoth! Do leave yourself a retreat in case it is hopeless though)

On 18.1.2012 01:41 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
I read the right story, lol. Um, it looks like Luthien was able to make the crown fall off Morgoth's head by singing him to sleep. Beren was like a wolf. Perhaps I could've saved and worn my Drauglin suit? I dunno. I'm feeling antsy for a big fight is all.

On 18.1.2012 02:25 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Wow, that was fun, but I think probably impossible. I slammed my sword and axe against Ol' Morgy's head many-a-time, but the best I could do was to stun him. I even brought out my mattock of 6d10 damage and hit him 3 consecutive times and no star fell off his life bar. I did, however, knock the crown off his head and once I realized I was never going to kill him I tried to figure out how the whole freeing a silmaril thing worked. A cinch with Angrist, but I wasn't successful in two straight attempts with my current kit. I got cornered in some nasty rubble and a pit and couldn't manage to get myself to better ground before Grond finally dealt the deathblow. I figured it was impossible, but heck, sometimes you just gotta go for the glory. It'd be neat to sit at the bottom of Angband, wear the crown, or at least maybe craft a new Silmaril crown that doesn't weigh 1000 pounds, and be all like, minion, fetch me my orcish liquor.
Oh well. Getting to the throne room is fairly easy for me now, so I guess I'll just try again, but no more going for Morgy's head!

On 18.1.2012 02:33 decoy wrote:
"I figured it was impossible, but heck, sometimes you just gotta go for the glory. It'd be neat to sit at the bottom of Angband, wear the crown, or at least maybe craft a new Silmaril crown that doesn't weigh 1000 pounds, and be all like, minion, fetch me my orcish liquor."

...You may not have won the game, but I think you just won the forum. A tip of the mithril great helm to you.

On 18.1.2012 02:47 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Cool! I'll take it.

Okay, I give. What am I supposed to do? Wear the Luthien Cloak? Wear a Drauglin suit? Sing him to sleep. Whapping it off his head can't be the best way, and unless I can find a way to become invincible, killing Morgoth seems unlikely. I don't mind dead level specifics. Like, hey, why didn't you simply do xyz. Then I can facepalm myself.

On 18.1.2012 04:53 Satyr wrote:
I don't quite understand. Didn't you realise that you allready got a Silmaril out of the crown (slot i of your inventory)? All you had to do was run for the stairs.

You did perfectly fine btw, knocking it of Morgoth's head is one of the two ways to get at the crown. The other is indeed singing it off, but that requires a different build with heavy investment into songs.

I don't know if it is in the description of Angrist, the artefact dagger I think you had earlier, but that was the knife Beren used to cut out a Silmaril. And if I understand the mechanism right, the armour-ignoring property of Angrist would indeed make it the perfect gem-cutting tool, almost guaranteeing a success.

On 18.1.2012 11:28 Scatha wrote:
Just to clarify, the "singing it off" method is really putting the Lord of Darkness to sleep; you can do this with the Song of Lorien, but you can also use a Staff of Slumber to bypass a song requirement.

On 18.1.2012 12:22 half wrote:
Great work!

On 18.1.2012 13:08 Satyr wrote:
Right, never thought about staffs, i guess that makes chanelling quite a bit more valuable.

On 18.1.2012 14:40 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Alright! Thanks for the info. I went several combat rounds with Morgoth and Thuringwethil and others before the crown actually fell off. Perhaps because the area was so crowded with monsters, it naturally fell into the antechamber which was filled with Troll Guards. Now, at the time, I didn't understand how to wrest the Silmaril. I tried to disarm it one square away after killing a Troll that was standing on it. Then, another troll landed on it and I switched position with it. I then tried to pick up the crown, but of course it's too heavy. All this while I'm being pummeled by Morgoth et al. Once I figure out how to wrest the Silmaril, already burning two tries with my current kit, I was down to like, no hitpoints and a long road to either staircase. But, now I know, with my build, I've got to whap it off his head, run over, stand on it, try to destroy it with the old 'k' command, with Angrist preferrably, don't bother trying to nab 2, and get the hell out! I don't fancy singing him to sleep, so on my next character I'll try to speed the whole helm lopping affair.

I realize that once you know you can whap the crown off his head, it all seems obvious... but this is kind nethackish for Angband. I mean, I had to go toe-to-toe with Morgoth for some rounds before his crown rolled off. Also, with Celebrex, I was singing the song of Lorien a-la Luthien's cloak, which didn't seem to do anything, at all. Of course, I was a horrible singer, which makes sense. I'm not complaining, I think it all makes sense, but it's going to be hard for an unspoiled warrior type to win. And, perhaps that's the point. Maybe warrior types shouldn't win. The game is obviously complex, and states that you shouldn't be trying to kill Morgoth.

In any case, It's good to know!

On 18.1.2012 15:17 half wrote:
I think it will be very hard for unspoiled warrior types to win on the first time they visit the Throne Room, which is fine by me. If it were very hard for them to win even on the third or fourth visit, I'd count that as a bit of a problem. You need to do a decent amount of raw damage to topple the crown (25 points), but I think quite a few warrior builds are likely to do this on their first hit, whether with large weapons or through good critical hits.

There is also a bit of an issue in trying to get a Silmaril. Without some form of sharpness it is pretty hard (though not impossible). This won't be as much of a problem for Stealthy characters who can have several attempts without being slain, but might cause an additional failed attempt for warriors.

On 18.1.2012 15:24 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
This game is very interesting to think about. I think perhaps, my first confusion from both my throne chracters stems from not knowing where his crown was. When I read the description for Morgy, I don't recall it actually saying that, "hey, this crown, with these silmarils you need, is on this guy's head." Perhaps I'm just that thick, and that I should make this jump automatically, which I usually would, but for the fact that I'm not supposed to try to kill him, which makes me think, I'm not supposed to try to attack him. The game even queries you when you try to attack anything with the "are you sure you want to attack?!" which takes you off the trail. To me, trying to use ctrl+direction, or disarm, seems a logical way of trying to wrest a silmaril, while knocking the crown off his head in combat doesn't. Because, when I'm attacking something, I'm assuming I'm going for body or neck or regular hits... not focusing on whapping off a crown. Perhaps there could be something like, a called-shot, or a one-use command, like "wrest silmaril", that could be used to try to pry the silmaril from a one square distance, or maybe even while it is on the big guy's head? Or, perhaps the called shot could be used to try to knock off the crown? Having a specific command for wrest would be a big clue for characters trying to win, and perhaps just displaying on Morgy's description that the silmarils are on his head (forgive me if it does! lol) for thick players like me!

These are just some ideas floating around in my head is all, not sour grapes, I assure you. I learned through 2 throne characters how it all works, so I pretty much paid my dues, but it still seems a bit odd is all. Of course, singing makes perfect sense, but the warrior way seems strange to me.

On 18.1.2012 15:26 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Apologies, I wrote and posted before I read your last post, half, if anything seems odd in my last post.

On 18.1.2012 16:13 Scatha wrote:
The description for Morgoth says:
"His disgusting visage, twisted with evil, is crowned with iron, the three Silmarils forever burning him."
He also has light radius 7, which is a subtle indication.

This is pretty explicit, but perhaps it could be slightly more so, or attention could otherwise be drawn to it. There are many parts of the game which are supposed to be challenging, but working out where the Iron Crown is is not one of them!

On the other hand, I think it is okay for it not to be quite obvious how to get the crown. I agree that there is something a little odd about the method, but I'm not sure anything is better. The idea -- that now you're fighting Morgoth you're aiming at the crown rather than just aiming to wound -- is no more of an abstraction than many things in the game.

On 18.1.2012 16:31 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Facepalm! Obviously, I'm proof you can pretty much be an oblivious person and still win roguelikes if all you do is stare at your hp bar and apply basic strategy. You see, I roleplay low int warriors perfectly.

I still like the attempt to wrest a silmaril command idea, but how about this... and forgive again if the game displays this and I didn't notice... but how about as your fighting the messages frequently display something like, your sword glances off the crown of Morgoth, or is it intentional that a lucky strike knock the crown off and not the case of an adventurer trying to hit the crown on purpose?

On 19.1.2012 11:39 half wrote:
Extra messages when fighting Morgoth could indeed be the solution.

On 19.1.2012 14:32 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
After reading about Barocar, I think I really see now why I went many rounds without a crown being knocked off, and why I eventually succeeded. Well, I thought I was dishing out some pretty awesome damage... I was taking out unique balrogs and vampire lords, even Nameless things, which I couldn't scratch with a different warrior, in scant few combat rounds. But, it wasn't until I got sort of cornered in rubble that I broke out my mattock to clear myself a path, when I hit Morgoth with it and the crown came off. I didn't make the connection at first because I was too pre-occupied in getting both my weapons back equipped, but I simply wasn't doing enough one hit damage to launch it from his brow I suppose. When I was fully buffed at the start of the fight, I was doing 3d13 with Hurin and 3d11 with Anguirel, I think. I managed to flip weapons slots in the ruckus, I originally had Hurin first then Anguirel. I think next trip down, I'm going to lug my war-mattock, just buff up right next to him, and walk up and take a shot at his head! That would be fun. And, run like hell, of course. And, after reading up on Satyr's character, Carcharoth awaits me. My old FAangband nemesis... a proper finale that I'm looking forward to.

On 19.1.2012 19:24 half wrote:
You were wielding the Battle Axe of Hurin in your off-hand? That is pretty insane. Oh, I see that you normally do it the other way around. Two-weapon fighting is possible in Sil, but the idea was to balance it to encourage light weapons (lighter than your main hand at least) and to make it not particularly strong (unlike almost all other games with two-weapon combat). This character might show that it is not quite working right.

On 19.1.2012 22:19 HallucinationMushroom wrote:
Yeah, I thought that wielding two hand-and-a-half-weapons was pretty crazy, and unless I'm mistaken, I think I was only getting the -3 dex and str penalty to the off hand, which I found surprisingly good! I assumed all the attacks were going to be penalized. So, with a weapon like Anguirel which had already reached a str threshold on the damage dice, it really wasn't much of a sacrifice. Plus, potions!

On 20.1.2012 20:05 half wrote:
Yes, it is only the off-hand with the penalties. At least before you start finding artefact weapons I think it is reasonably well balanced -- you give up a shield and they are a good slot. However, maybe it is a bit good with artefacts and/or insane stats. One partial solution is to improve the artefact shields.

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