The Angband Ladder: Isirnivri, Noldor Fingolfin no-class by <>

  [Sil-Q 1.3.2-q Character Dump]

 Name   Isirnivri     Age    4,278       Str   3
 Sex    Male          Height   7'2       Dex   3
 Race   Noldor        Weight   171       Con   5
 House  Fingolfin                        Gra   3

 Game Turn    3,619   Melee  (+11,2d9)   Melee       11 =  8  +3  -1  +1
 Exp Pool       367   Bows    (+5,2d8)   Archery      5 =  2  +3  -1  +1
 Total Exp   11,567   Armor [+11,5-10]   Evasion     11 =  7  +3  +1
 Burden       122.1                      Stealth      2 =  0  +3  -1
 Max Burden   172.8   Health      0:49   Perception   6 =  3  +3
 Depth         250'   Voice      30:34   Will        10 =  6  +3      +1
 Min Depth     200'                      Smithing     3 =  0  +3
 Light Radius     2                      Song         5 =  2  +3

 You are one of two children of an archer from the house of Fingolfin.
 You have light grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.

  [Last Messages]

> The Orc soldier misses you.
> The Crebain misses you.
> You hit the Crebain.
> You have slain the Crebain.
> The Orc warrior misses you.
> The Orc soldier misses you.
> You hit the Orc soldier!!
> You have slain the Orc soldier.
> The Orc soldier misses you.
> The Orc warrior misses you.
> The Orc soldier misses you.
> You hit the Orc soldier.
> The Orc soldier misses you.
> The Orc warrior hits you.
> You die.


  #    ##
  ..   #o
  ..   #o
  .    #.


a) a Longsword (+0,2d6) [+1] 4.0 lb
b) a Longbow of Doriath (+0,2d5) 3.5 lb
   It slays wolves and spiders.  It can shoot arrows 20 squares
   (with your current strength).
c) (nothing)
d) a Topaz Ring of Hunger
   It increases your hunger.  
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (5629 turns)
g) Leather Armour [-1,1d4]
h) a Cloak [+1]
i) a Round Shield [+0,1d3]
j) (nothing)
k) a Set of Gauntlets (-1) [+0,1d1]
l) a Pair of Boots [+0,1d1]
m) 98 Arrows
   They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) 79 Arrows
   They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).


a) 3 Fragments of Lembas
b) 3 Vermilion Potions of Antidote
c) a Gnarled Staff of Imprisonment (8 charges)
d) an Ivory Staff of Light (0 charges)
e) a Rosewood Staff of Sanctity (4 charges)
f) a Rosewood Staff of Sanctity (3 charges)
g) a Golden Staff of Understanding (2 charges)
h) a Twisted Staff of Recharging (3 charges)
i) 2 Wooden Torches (2000 turns)
j) 4 Daggers of Accompaniment (+0,1d5) 2.0 lb
   It can be thrown effectively (13 squares).  It grants you the
   ability: Two Weapon Fighting.  
k) a Curved Sword (-1,2d5) [+1] 3.5 lb
l) a Greatsword (-2,3d6) [+1] 6.0 lb
   It requires both hands to wield it properly.  
m) a Greatsword (-2,3d5) [+1] 6.5 lb
   It requires both hands to wield it properly.  
n) a Battle Axe (-3,3d5) 4.5 lb
   It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.  
o) a Battle Axe (-3,3d4) 5.0 lb
   It does extra damage when wielded with both hands.  
p) a Shovel (-2,2d2) <+1> 7.5 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 1.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  
q) a Shortbow (+0,1d7) 1.5 lb
   It can shoot arrows 12 squares (with your current strength).
r) a Longbow (+0,2d5) 2.0 lb
   It can shoot arrows 20 squares (with your current strength).


Isirnivri of the Noldor
Entered Angband on 1 Jan 2018

   Turn     Depth   Note

      0     50 ft   (Rout)
      0     50 ft   (Song of Challenge)
      0     50 ft   (Crowd Fighting)
    559    100 ft   (Hardiness)
  2,193    250 ft   (Keen Senses)
  3,545    250 ft   Encountered Gorgol, the Butcher
  3,550    250 ft   Encountered Boldog, the Merciless
  3,576    250 ft   Slew Boldog, the Merciless
  3,587    250 ft   Slew Gorgol, the Butcher

  3,619    250 ft   Slain by an Orc warrior.
  3,619    250 ft   Died on 04 January 2018.

  ['Score' 005096381]

Posted on 1.1.2018 16:48
Last updated on 7.1.2018 02:48

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On 1.1.2018 16:48 wrote:
Sil-Q, heavy melee, just starting out. Amateur play - only one vanilla Sil win under belt, though a Morgoth kill.

I like Rout and Song of Challenge. Rout is the perfect archery utility for a heavy Noldor tank. Song of Challenge is also neat utility. Can't wait to really see it in action with Orc Archers and such. Also gives me an early game use for my Voice, another mark in favor of this variant.

On 3.1.2018 03:59 wrote:
Aaaaaand....I get cornered by two Orc uniques. Was trying to play safe by going back a floor (got ahead of min depth by quite a bit), and this happens.

On 7.1.2018 02:48 wrote:
Whelp, died.

I've actually scummed (copying save file) to figure out what I should do in this situation. Turns out, I nearly had it. Just should've gone north (closer to staircase) and scummed the AI into a tunnel fight. After killing two orc uniques, make a mad dash to staircase.

I don't have the fortitude to reset, so I'm going to keep playing the scummed save that won the fight. I won't, however, post it on this ladder. I'll just post more comments here / on the forum if I think they're relevant to Sil-Q feedback.

On 11.1.2018 21:28 wrote:
Playing my scummed & continued game:

Song of Challenge is really, really good. Even at 500' - 600', I've been able to manipulate packs / archers of foes off of a simple two Song + three Grace alone. Annoying Easterling Warrior trios or Orc Captain packs are somewhat trivialized with this. Also controls Orc Archers as well (Easterling Archers, not quite as well). Pretty sure it'll work well on felines, seeing as how they have low will. Manipulates enemies around a unique as well, though I haven't tried that on the entourages around an Easterling Unique or a Balrog.

It's strong & makes my guy stronger, yeah, but I feel like I'm cheating. With very little song investment, I'm basically ignoring the well-crafted pack AI game. Easily manipulating dumb orcs or low will felines is one thing. Easily manipulating Easterlings, or the pack around a leader (captain, unique, etc)? Feels like it should require more song investment for that to actually work.

Which...makes me question the design decision of a song that basically allows you to ignore such a well-crafted part of the game. I like the idea of a crowd control song, as well as a use of your Voice for brawler archetypes. Problem is that Challenges feels a little too good and a little too cheating; Slaying was b0rked for the Throne Room whilst being OKish elsewhere.


Other than that, Rout is great. Nice utility for a brawler looking to finish off a fleeing foe. Wouldn't take it on an archer; unnecessary with enough Archery skill, plus it would slow down obtainment of other Archery skills. Does make it such that you don't need Sprinting or AI / positioning manipulation to finish off fleeing foes, but I don't think Rout is cheating the game like Song of Challenge is.

Just obtained new Defiance. Probably should've grabbed it earlier with the Spear I saw earlier. Oh well.

On 19.2.2018 07:45 seraph wrote:
hello funnymzn! good to see you!

On 2.3.2018 13:48 Quirk wrote:
It's tricky making Songs that people will take at all. Some people still tell me they'd never take Song of Challenge because they find it easy enough to manipulate the AI without it. Others love it. I've had more feedback from the "not worth it to me" camp than the "really good" camp.

It may depend on your play style. If it's filling a niche that was causing you problems, it probably feels amazing. People who feel they had that part of the game figured out may be more reluctant to invest.

It does weaken a bit late game - while it still makes foes aggressive, higher will enemies may take time out to breathe fire or sing or do other non-combat things; resisting the pull to close in on you at higher wills is much more effective and so to some extent this is more of an early-game skill.

Song of Elbereth can also be really quite strong early on, but it doesn't see nearly as much use as I'd expect.

On 2.3.2018 20:18 wrote:
I'm still sitting on ~'650 on my scummed game, staring down a Creeping Horror. Hate those things & their corroding my equipment so much that I haven't touched the game in a month or two. >_>

Huh, so I'm one of the few that likes it. Interesting. I'm interested in why it is that they find it underwhelming. My initial guess is that veterans of the game have all ready hammered out elegant solutions to pack & archer AI, so they didn't really care for cheesing the AI. Whereas, I'm still a newbie learning the tricks of the trade, so I'm happy to make a small investment that allows me to completely ignore troublesome AI. Which, if that's true....iunno. I'd have to be a veteran at the game to give better feedback.

I can only say that it's allowed me to ignore substantial mid-game threats, especially the higher orc packs and Easterling Warriors. Lategame, eh. IIRC, after Cats, the only packs remaining are Werewolves and the entourages around a few uniques. Last few times I've gotten that far, I've been strong enough that I haven't felt the need for something like Song of Challenges. So, iunno, maybe Challenges could still require a tad more investment to control mid-game threats? (It struggles to control Easterling Archers, so there's that).

Hello, seraph, good to see you. Don't expect consistent Sil play from me: I've been sucked into Desktop Dungeons. : p

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