The Angband Ladder: Ninim, Sindar Doriath no-class by Wiwaxia

  [Sil-Q 1.4.1 Character Dump]

 Name   Ninim         Age      212       Str   2 =  1  +1
 Sex    Female        Height   5'8       Dex   5 =  4  +1
 Race   Sindar        Weight   150       Con   3
 House  Doriath                          Gra   6 =  4          +2

 Game Turn   33,621   Melee  (+17,2d8)   Melee       17 = 11  +5      +1
 Exp Pool       883   Bows   (+5,1d14)   Archery      5 =  0  +5  -1  +1
 Total Exp   55,483   Armor [+21,7-19]   Evasion     21 =  6  +5  +4  +6
 Burden       104.6                      Stealth     -1 =  6  +5  -4  -8
 Max Burden   144.0   Health      0:34   Perception  20 = 14  +6
 Depth         1000'  Voice      51:59   Will         8 =  2  +6
 Min Depth     1000'  Song    Elbereth   Smithing     6 =  0  +6
 Light Radius     3                      Song        30 = 20  +6  +3  +1

 You are one of several children of a Sindar archer. You have light
 grey eyes, straight silver hair, and a fair complexion.

  [Last Messages]

> The Troll guard notices you.
> You hear a shout for help.
> You begin a song of mastery and command.
> You hear a shout for help.
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness!
> You hear a shout for help.
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness misses you.
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness...
> Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth stares deep into your eyes.
> You stare back unafraid!
> Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs turns to fight!
> You begin a song to the Queen of the Stars.
> Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth flees in terror!
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You die.


  #TC #S.


a) a Mithril Longsword of Shadows (+1,2d6) [+1] <+3> 2.5 lb
   It improves your song by 3.  It creates an unnatural darkness.
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
b) a Dragon-horn Bow (+0,1d12) 2.0 lb
   It can shoot arrows 20 squares (with your current strength).
c) an Onyx Ring of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
d) a Golden Ring of Protection [+0,1d2]
e) a Sea Shell Amulet of Regeneration
   It speeds your regeneration (which increases your hunger
   while active).  
f) a Feanorian Lamp of Brightness
   It burns brightly, increasing your light radius by an
   additional square.  
g) a Mail Corslet of Nogrod [-3,2d5]
   It sustains all your stats.  It cannot be harmed by the
h) a Cloak of Protection [+2,1d1]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
i) a Round Shield of Deflection [+1,1d4]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
j) a Jewelled Crown of Command
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the
   ability: Song of Mastery.  
k) a Set of Gauntlets of Strength (-1) [+0,1d1] <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  
l) The Pair of Boots of Finrod [+3,1d1]
   It grants you freedom of movement.  It cannot be harmed by
   the elements.  
m) 90 Arrows
   They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) 33 Arrows of Piercing
   They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 20 squares
   (with your current strength and bow).


a) 3 Mottled Herbs of Rage
b) 5 Grey Herbs of Healing
c) 3 Clear Potions of Miruvor
d) 3 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
e) 10 Sparkling Potions of Healing
f) 2 Azure Potions of Voice
g) a Shimmering Potion of Antidote
h) 7 Sky Blue Potions of Quickness
i) 6 Black Potions of Elemental Resistance
j) 2 Brown Potions of Strength
k) 3 Cloudy Potions of Dexterity
l) 3 Vermilion Potions of Constitution
m) a Gnarled Staff of Earthquakes (3 charges)
n) a Pearl Ring of Frost
   It provides resistance to fire.  
o) a Coral Amulet of Preservation
   It sustains your constitution and grace.  It reduces your
   need for food.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
p) a Jewelled Crown of Brilliance [+0,1d1]
   It lights the dungeon around you.  It cannot be harmed by the
q) a Bastard Sword of Doriath (-1,3d4) [+1] 4.0 lb
   It slays wolves and spiders.  It does extra damage when
   wielded with both hands.  
r) a Mithril Longsword (+2,2d5) [+1] 1.5 lb
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
s) a Shovel (-2,2d2) <+1> 5.0 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 1.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  


Exchange Places
Focused attack
Keen Senses
Song of Elbereth
Song of Delvings
Song of Thresholds


  0 /  3  Wolf                                    
  0 /  4  Tanglethorn                             
  0 /  1  Phantom                                 
  0 /  6  Orc                                     
  2 /  2  Grimhawk                                
  2 /  5  Orc scout                               
  3 /  3  Spider hatchling                        
  0 /  2  Blue serpent                            
  1 /  4  Brood spider                            
  3 / 14  Orc soldier                             
  0 /  6  Madthorn                                
  3 /  3  Gorcrow                                 
  0 / 26  Orc archer                              
  1 / 30  White wolf                              
  1 /  6  Red serpent                             
  (seen)  Gorgol, the Butcher 
  1 / 35  Orc warrior                             
  0 /  3  Sword spider                            
 20 / 24  Crebain                                 
  1 /  3  Mewlip                                  
  0 /  3  Orc thief                               
  1 /  5  Nightthorn                              
  0 /  5  Green serpent                           
  0 / 29  Mountain troll                          
  0 /  3  Tattered wight                          
  0 / 15  Orc champion                            
  0 / 44  Easterling warrior                      
 12 / 16  Hummerhorn                              
  (seen)  Balcmeg, the Relentless 
  (seen)  Lug, the Grotesque 
  0 /  6  Orc captain                             
  0 / 32  Warg                                    
  0 /  8  Grave wight                             
  0 /  4  Dark serpent                            
  1 /  7  Whispering shadow                       
  0 /  9  Distended spider                        
  0 /  4  Easterling archer                       
  (seen)  Othrod, the Orc Lord 
  0 / 18  Snow troll                              
  0 /  2  Barrow wight                            
  0 / 10  Giant                                   
  1 / 15  Easterling spy                          
  0 /  3  Shadow bat                              
  0 / 10  Sulrauko                                
  (seen)  Ulfang the Black 
  (seen)  Duruin, Least of the Balrogs 
  0 / 16  Werewolf                                
  0 /  5  Shadow spider                           
  0 /  5  Shadow                                  
  0 /  2  Sapphire serpent                        
  0 /  1  Ruby serpent                            
  0 /  1  Creeping horror                         
  0 / 19  Ringrauko                               
  (seen)  Delthaur, Balrog of Terror 
  0 / 17  Cave troll                              
  0 /  6  Emerald serpent                         
  0 /  2  Oathwraith                              
  1 / 39  Cat warrior                             
  0 / 10  Amethyst serpent                        
  0 /  8  Kemenrauko                              
  0 /  4  Grotesque                               
  0 /  3  Young cold-drake                        
  (seen)  Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow 
  1 /  6  Spider of Gorgoroth                     
  1 / 15  Greater werewolf                        
  0 /  4  Adamant serpent                         
  0 / 14  Lesser vampire                          
  2 /  7  Cat assassin                            
  (slain) Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo 
  0 /  7  Young fire-drake                        
  0 / 11  Darting horror                          
  0 / 12  Unmourned                               
  7 / 31  Ururauko                                
  (seen)  Tevildo, Prince of Cats 
  1 /  2  Ancient sapphire serpent                
  0 / 88  Troll guard                             
  1 / 17  Vampire                                 
  0 / 16  Nameless thing                          
  (seen)  Smaug the Golden 
  0 / 15  Ancient ruby serpent                    
  0 /  4  Great cold-drake                        
  0 /  5  Silent watcher                          
  1 / 44  Gwathrauko                              
  0 /  6  Ancient spider                          
  0 /  8  Ancient emerald serpent                 
  3 /  8  Vampire lord                            
  (seen)  Dagorhir, the Elfbane 
  (seen)  Gostir, the Dread Glance 
  0 /  4  Ancient amethyst serpent                
  0 /  3  Hithrauko                               
  (seen)  Shelob, Spider of Darkness 
  0 /  1  Ancient adamant serpent                 
  (seen)  Ancalagon the Black 
  (seen)  Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger 
  (seen)  Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs 
  (seen)  Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth 
  (seen)  Morgoth, Lord of Darkness 


The Serpentine Ring of Barahir 
The Amulet of Tinfang Gelion 
The Jewel 'Elessar' 
The Mail Corslet of Fingon 
The Hauberk of Amon Rudh (found)
The Mail Corslet of Gundor 
The Curved Sword 'Nakh' 
The Battle Axe of Hurin 
The Helm of the Oathbreaker 
The Jewelled Crown of Maedhros 
The Cloak of Maglor 
The Shortbow of Celegorm (found)
The Arrow 'Dailir' 
The Pair of Boots of Finrod (found)
The Pair of Greaves of Orodreth 
The Set of Gauntlets of Gamil Zirak 


Ninim of the Sindar
Entered Angband on 12 Jan 2019

   Turn     Depth   Note

      5     50 ft   (Song of Delvings)
      5     50 ft   (Song of Thresholds)
  1,808    300 ft   mithril corslet!
  1,808    300 ft   of course good luck means yasd imminent
  2,398    300 ft   Encountered Gorgol, the Butcher
  2,717    250 ft   who needs vanish when you can lock yourself in a hallway 
  3,037    300 ft   (Song of Elbereth)
  3,660    350 ft   Encountered Balcmeg, the Relentless
  3,989    400 ft   (Keen Senses)
  4,542    350 ft   Encountered Lug, the Grotesque
  5,565    400 ft   (Listen)
  7,381    450 ft   (Forewarned)
  7,677    400 ft   Fell through a crumbling stair
  7,677    450 ft   Encountered Othrod, the Orc Lord
  9,520    550 ft   Encountered Duruin, Least of the Balrogs
  9,930    600 ft   Encountered Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
 10,486    600 ft   (Disguise)
 10,912    650 ft   looks like thresholds stops shadows
 10,912    650 ft   nice
 11,007    650 ft   Fell through a crumbling stair
 11,799    650 ft   interesting, _freedom removes your own wards
 11,799    650 ft   wonder if that's intentional
 12,948    750 ft   Encountered Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow
 13,165    750 ft   (Grace)
 13,202    750 ft   when i find myself in times of trouble
 13,202    750 ft   song of thresholds comes to me
 13,202    750 ft   singing words of warding~
 13,274    750 ft   interesting trick
 13,274    750 ft   locking a door behind you in a hallway seems
 13,274    750 ft   to shunt enemy pathing away?
 15,325    700 ft   Encountered Ulfang the Black
 16,296    850 ft   Encountered Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 16,906    850 ft   Encountered Gostir, the Dread Glance
 19,806    900 ft   Found The Hauberk of Amon Rudh
 21,379    950 ft   (Grace)
 21,554    950 ft   Found The Shortbow of Celegorm
 23,562    850 ft   Encountered Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 24,335    900 ft   darting horrors are a real problem for this build
 24,578    900 ft   kemmenraukar are also on the shit list
 24,647    900 ft   Encountered Smaug the Golden
 24,703    900 ft   Fell into a chasm
 25,680    950 ft   (Focused attack)
 26,381    950 ft   (Exchange Places)
 28,308    950 ft   Found The Pair of Boots of Finrod
 28,804    950 ft   Encountered Shelob, Spider of Darkness
 28,973    950 ft   Slew Oikeroi, Guard of Tevildo
 32,343    950 ft   Encountered Dagorhir, the Elfbane
 33,043    950 ft   never found !grace
 33,043    950 ft   oh dear
 33,052  1,000 ft   Entered Morgoth's throne room
 33,081  1,000 ft   good to know that delvings doesn't break tension
 33,086  1,000 ft   Encountered Thuringwethil, the Vampire Messenger
 33,088  1,000 ft   Encountered Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs
 33,088  1,000 ft   Encountered Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
 33,185  1,000 ft   thresholds maybe should, though
 33,185  1,000 ft   running around morgoth's hall locking all his doors
 33,185  1,000 ft   is a little silly
 33,512  1,000 ft   Encountered Ancalagon the Black
 33,614  1,000 ft   Encountered Gorthaur, Servant of Morgoth

 33,621  1,000 ft   Slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
 33,621  1,000 ft   Died on 13 January 2019.

  ['Score' 020066379]

Posted on 14.1.2019 06:10

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Related screenshot:
Thresholds in the throne room


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On 14.1.2019 06:10 Wiwaxia wrote:
YASD: forgot to buff before calling V over, and then switched from Mastery to Elbereth to try to scare Gothmog up the stairs, giving V a chance to do exactly my max health in one blow.

Was not expecting to get nearly as far as I did. This was supposed to be a crash-dummy build with all my starting experience into song to check out the interaction of thresholds and delving, but it's actually surprisingly viable if you survive long enough to get some stealth, good armor, and Elbereth.

This build plays very differently from any other way I've played the game. I started thinking about loops and paths through the dungeon much more. You can use thresholds to block off all doors in directions other than what you're exploring right then to make yourself a safe retreat corridor, and being able to duck into a hallway and rest or map safely was invaluable. To safely trap an ancient serpent, you want to bait it down a loop where you can close one end and then have a quicker path to the other to get there and close it before the serpent does. Elbereth and Mastery both work to open up a space between you and pursuers so you can close a door on them. They seem to work better for different things, which I assume is a function of light sensitivity and the other factors in morale. You can also lock things in a room with you and the stairs, so they run off the level instead of elsewhere on it. Simply having that many doors stay closed for you acts as a quasi-vanish, too, so even without much stealth I didn't get the pile-ups where things I'd scared off all came back after me that I've gotten with other Elbereth builds.

Delvings and Listen together give you quite a lot of information. It's possible to make safe, targeted runs at the stairs for diving or at specific items if you have _treasures. You can check which routes are safer and wall off things you don't want to deal with pre-emptively with Thresholds. You can also plan escape routes and theoretically ambushes, although this build wasn't really set up for the latter.

I'm not sure I could make it this far again; the crown of command, the mithril longsword of shadows, and an early mithril corslet were all very lucky breaks. I think the basic 3-songs-and-listen core of the build is viable, though. There was a particularly dicey bit on previous runs of this build in the early game trying to use your pittance of experience from item id and seeing enemies to build up enough melee, stealth and evasion to not die instantly when spotted. Things get a little more stable once you get about 5 evasion, 2 or 3 melee and stealth, and Elbereth. You could also presumably do a higher-stealth variation. Trying to survive that early bit with only Delvings and Thresholds is a fun challenge, though. You get chased off the level a lot. Delvings makes collapsing stairs less of an issue, because you can more easily spot stairs on the new level to escape to.

The melee investment was entirely late game and for the crown, and so never really saw use. I killed a very few things while freezing them with Mastery, mostly for the novelty, and killed some grimhawks and orcs in the desperate 0 melee early game, but I was never relying on killing things to get experience or get rid of problems.

On 14.1.2019 12:21 wobbly wrote:
This is such a beautiful idea which I plan on stealing for a pacifist run sometime. With lorien & stealth it'd be much smoother, just less room to muck up the throne room

On 15.1.2019 00:31 Quirk wrote:
This is a really interesting build, and exhibits the emergent stuff I hoped to see when I began work on Delvings and Thresholds. This also potentially will get much easier to run with Delvings and Thresholds getting cheaper next release, though I am now wondering what an appropriate balance point for them looks like; Thresholds is clearly a bit too expensive now, but if you can buy both early on with Elbereth for less than 3K, I don't know whether that looks like an interesting and challenging start or something that's going to be weirdly more powerful than I expect.

I'm really impressed with this and would appreciate any thoughts you have on the relative strength of the songs.

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